HOOPSWORLD: Blame All Around Raptors D
Old 11-23-2009, 04:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
landry fields forever

Administrator

 
Acie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Living in a van down by the river
Posts: 22,046
Representing:
Unhappy HOOPSWORLD: Blame All Around Raptors D

Quote:
As a coach, you want to pick your spots when to rip into your team. For Toronto Raptors coach Jay Triano, this is his spot.

Toronto's fourth quarter defense against the Magic Sunday was as pathetic a performance for a "playoff caliber" team as you will see. Call it whatever you want wretched, dreadful, embarrassing, soft, token, Matador, Red Sea, Swinging Gate - whatever negative descriptive term you want to use will work. Then multiply it by 10, add five expletives, three thrown chairs and a smashed white board. It was that bad.

However, he's also got to be careful about laying all of this at the players' feet. The Raptors are the NBA's worst defensive team, and if a team is this bad on D, the blame is shared by the coaches and players. This is a flawed scheme they can't win with. Toronto cannot make the big stops in close games with their current defensive style and effort level.

But, first and foremost, you have to look at the effort level. From Chris Bosh's soft, token hedges on ballscreens, to Jose Calderon and Jarrett Jack floating out to semi-contest three-points shots, to Andrea Bargnani playing two-hand touch, the Raptors do not have anything resembling a competitive nature on the defensive end.

In a potential "statement" game on Sunday the Raps let the Magic do whatever they wanted to in the fourth quarter without a fight.

And this was a Magic team with a lineup of Jason Williams, J.J. Redick, Mickael Pietrus, Ryan Anderson and Marcin Gortat on the floor not an all-star to be found. Raptor defenders didn't pressure the ball, deny any passes, hedge hard on screens or contest hard on shots.

To a man, the effort was poor. They gave up 10 straight points to the Magic bench. For that the players should be called out starting with Bosh, Calderon and Bargnani.

But, if Hedo Turkoglu isn't defending as well as he did in Orlando, it's for one reason: he isn't held accountable to do so. If Hedo can float around at two-thirds speed, that's on the coaching staff.

While Orlando's defenders aggressively fly at shooters, Toronto's gingerly float in their direction. While the Magic players contest cuts and body up on screens, the Raptors casually follow their man around. The reason? One coaching staff demands it, and one coaching staff does not.
For the rest of the story:
LINK - Hoopsworld
Acie is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 04:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
adoring his baby girl.

Senior Member
 
Sick, Wicked and Nasty!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada eh?
Posts: 3,288
Representing:
Default

I can't disagree with this. I wonder why with 9 new players we make the same mistakes and have the same deficiencies and then look back to when we didn't. Kevin O'Neill. The guy might have been wack but he held players accountable for D. I see the current problems with this team on the coaches to fix. Yes there are some soft players by nature, but they've shown the good in small stretches. The coaches have to find a way to extend the effort.
Sick, Wicked and Nasty! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 04:32 PM   #3 (permalink)
is waiting

Senior Member
 
Blaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,258
Representing:
Default

i also disagree with this to me its not the coaching staff to blame its the players. The players never seem like there motivated to play defense, when they are theyre a solid defensive team. They all rely on their offence to give them motivation on defence, once motivated they all can compete with any other team in the league( execpt Calderon defensivly)
Blaze is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 04:44 PM   #4 (permalink)
Waiting for DD's 1st in game wind mill Dunk

Senior Member

 
halphbreedballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: T.O.
Posts: 4,824
Representing:
Default

Even Jose can play decent D when he is really into the game...It just seems that the whole team lacks the passion to defend hard...

& with out Scrappy defenders on the floor this team will probably head south quickly...Think about it Bosh is the only player with a nose for the ball in the starting line up, DeRozan has shown it in spurts but they need more...

I say when we get Reggie Back the starting lineup will have to change...

AB or Jose either go to the bench or they get traded, Because both have been sooo inconsistant on O & D!!

Yup I said it!!
halphbreedballer is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 06:37 PM   #5 (permalink)
Bmats7
is pounding the rock! (Edit)

Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by halphbreedballer View Post

I say when we get Reggie Back the starting lineup will have to change...
I'm not even sure how good this guy is yet, but I know he'll be scary lol. That is reason enough to bench Bargnani.

And I don't know who in the other thread said this, but Derozan might be averaging the worst starting stats in the league and isn't as good a defender as Wright.

I understand getting the rookie minutes and I think Derozan has done an amazing job so far. But the team's attitude this year before Bosh makes a decision should be based solely on WIN NOW, WIN NOW, WIN NOW!!!

Since Evans is undersized he would have to gaurd the 4's. And since Bargnani doesnt even gaurd opposing centers (Bosh does) it wouldn't make a difference for us. This would also make up for Jose's deficiencies on D.

Jose/Wright/Turk/Evans/Bosh
  Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 06:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
Scrub City

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 744
Representing:
Default

Never mind Reggie Evans, so far Amir Johnson has shown he deserves to start over Bargs. The only justification Triano could have for not starting Amir over Bargnani is that Amir can get into foul trouble very quickly (not sure if he takes more because he knows he won't be on the court long enough to foul out) and the team has a lot invested in Bargnani's development.
t-bag is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 06:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
LX
effin' ineffable

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 30,269
Representing:
Default

At the same time they held Orlando to a good percentage and were in it to the end in spite of some terrible performances on both ends. I think it goes a little overboard to say they don't bring it on defense at all. They just break down too frequently, and there does appear to be disinterest at important times. And that's inexcusable, and I'm not sure why it isn't made more clear immediately. The second Triano sees things getting way too easy for the opposing offense, he needs to get a timeout, bench somebody and get some kind of a proper response. Or else we'll see more games where the numbers look good but the W turns to an L.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 06:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
Scrub City

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 744
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by •LX• View Post
At the same time they held Orlando to a good percentage and were in it to the end in spite of some terrible performances on both ends. I think it goes a little overboard to say they don't bring it on defense at all. They just break down too frequently, and there does appear to be disinterest at important times. And that's inexcusable, and I'm not sure why it isn't made more clear immediately. The second Triano sees things getting way too easy for the opposing offense, he needs to get a timeout, bench somebody and get some kind of a proper response. Or else we'll see more games where the numbers look good but the W turns to an L.
I agree - Orlando shot brutal percentages all around, and I think if you had the opportunity to take only 104 pts against before the game against Orlando you would. Don't get me wrong, they need to make huge improvements on defense but we lost against Orlando because no one was able to step up on offense when Bosh would get doubled/tripled.

This problem is compounded by the fact that the Raptors don't seem to be motivated to give a defensive effort unless our shots are falling.
t-bag is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 09:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
DVS
in la la land

I'm stuck being a Rap Fan
 
DVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Its jeffb's world we just post in it
Posts: 6,025
Representing:
Default

I have to agree with this guy.

To add. I knew the Raptors would be bad defensively but this is just embarassing.

To have a frontcourt making as much money as they do is pretty much insulting the fact that I actually watch the game.

Its funny to see NBAers day in and day out just simply have their way with the raptors. I really don't know how its going to be changed.
DVS is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2009, 10:25 PM   #10 (permalink)
Waiting for DD's 1st in game wind mill Dunk

Senior Member

 
halphbreedballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: T.O.
Posts: 4,824
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmats7 View Post
I'm not even sure how good this guy is yet, but I know he'll be scary lol. That is reason enough to bench Bargnani.

And I don't know who in the other thread said this, but Derozan might be averaging the worst starting stats in the league and isn't as good a defender as Wright.

I understand getting the rookie minutes and I think Derozan has done an amazing job so far. But the team's attitude this year before Bosh makes a decision should be based solely on WIN NOW, WIN NOW, WIN NOW!!!

Since Evans is undersized he would have to gaurd the 4's. And since Bargnani doesnt even gaurd opposing centers (Bosh does) it wouldn't make a difference for us. This would also make up for Jose's deficiencies on D.

Jose/Wright/Turk/Evans/Bosh
I'll desagree...If we want the win now lineup it would have to be

Jose/Beli/Turk/Bosh/Johnson

Or even

Jose/Beli/Turk/Evans/Bosh

Cause if we take AB out of the starting lineup Beli has to compensate for the Offence missed...
halphbreedballer is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 03:58 PM   #11 (permalink)
wanting harrison barnes

Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 480
Representing:
Default

this team just fails, no one wants to def but everyone wants to score.
look out for another 1st round exit.
komot is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 04:12 PM   #12 (permalink)
...

Senior Citizen
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Espoo, Finland
Posts: 2,343
Representing:
Default

You guys know that Magic is leading the league? We competed against them, but lost in the fourth. Good teams tend to win decent teams in the fourth. No big suprise there.

And while I wont disagree that our defense was bad in fourth, it was also pretty good on the first half. We held Vince to awful shooting percentages in the first for example.

And basketball games tend to have runs in them. We had a run earlier, Magic had one in the fourth. And to me it seemed like we lost, because we couldnt hit any shots in the fourth (couple of open threes by Calderon come to mind) and made stupid decisions offensively.

And Evans starting? Really? Yes he would get some boards, hustle and probably make our pick'n'roll defense better (we would still have Jose and Bosh there though). But he would also take stupid shots, give out turnovers, and basically bring nothing to our offense making it easier for opposing teams to double Bosh.

He is a role player. Very good one at his role, but he cant be a starter. And we would need that energy from the bench anyway. Just like we need Bellinelli of the bench to score.
Rudy-T is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 04:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
...

Senior Citizen
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Espoo, Finland
Posts: 2,343
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by komot View Post
this team just fails, no one wants to def but everyone wants to score.
look out for another 1st round exit.
1st round exit is probably pretty realistic? What did you expect from a team that wasnt even contending for a playoff spot last year? A championship?

You dont make a championship team out of lottery team in one off-season without actually getting couple of all-star (like Boston did). We didnt have chips to do that and to expect us to have improved to serious contender after last off season is just crazy.

I still think we can win 45-48 games and make it to the playoffs. And I think thats huge improvement.
Rudy-T is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 04:36 PM   #14 (permalink)
...

Resident Mavs Fan
 
10gizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,237
Representing:
Default

All I have to say is this.

With 4 games remaining this month [Indiana, Charlotte, Boston, Phoenix], we have a legitimate shot at closing November at .500. Considering the amount of new players and the slow [almost too slow] development of the system we're not in a bad spot whatsoever.

Also consider the fact that we will have already faced the following teams:

Orlando [twice], Phoenix [twice], Boston, Dallas, San Antonio, Atlanta, Cleveland, Denver and Utah...7 of which are the top 8 teams in the league.

I understand that our effort on defense has been deplorable, but I for one expected much worse coming out of the gate, bearing in mind the circumstances. I have a lot to be happy about as a Raptor fan. I hope some of you guys do to.
10gizzle is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 04:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

RF OG
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: At my house
Posts: 1,381
Representing:
Default

The coaching staff can preach defense at these guys 'till they're blue in the face and it won't make a damn bit of difference unless the players hold each other accountable.
That begins with the team's leadership. For all the credit given to Bosh for his great stats to begin the year, his leadership at the defensive ends still leaves a lot to be desired, (see Garnett, Kevin).
Dann38 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 05:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
acopur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 729
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy-T View Post
1st round exit is probably pretty realistic? What did you expect from a team that wasnt even contending for a playoff spot last year? A championship?

You dont make a championship team out of lottery team in one off-season without actually getting couple of all-star (like Boston did). We didnt have chips to do that and to expect us to have improved to serious contender after last off season is just crazy.

I still think we can win 45-48 games and make it to the playoffs. And I think thats huge improvement.
totally agree..
acopur is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 05:52 PM   #17 (permalink)
...

Senior Member
 
powerfulpanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,487
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by halphbreedballer View Post
I'll desagree...If we want the win now lineup it would have to be

Jose/Beli/Turk/Bosh/Johnson

Or even

Jose/Beli/Turk/Bosh/Evans

Cause if we take AB out of the starting lineup Beli has to compensate for the Offence missed...
are u kidding me?? beli in the starting lineup to make up for lost offence?? this team doesn't need offensive help!!! whats the point of having 4 players that can score on the floor at once!! theres not enuff ball to go around. and on top of that beli's D sucks as well.
powerfulpanda is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hoopsworld: State of the Raptors Blaze Toronto Raptors 0 07-28-2009 08:39 PM
Hoopsworld: 'Immediate Needs - Raptors' bogus Toronto Raptors 12 06-16-2009 02:17 PM
We Can Blame it on the Court Windex Toronto Raptors 19 01-02-2009 04:04 AM
Who is the most to blame? Benzo Toronto Raptors 22 03-26-2008 03:04 PM
is TJ really to blame? or is it really Smitch? INSIDER Toronto Raptors 34 03-13-2008 02:34 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24