Hollinger's Biggest Losers (Guess Who Made the List?)
Old 07-27-2010, 03:07 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Arrow Hollinger's Biggest Losers (Guess Who Made the List?)

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Losing Bosh was bad enough, but that wasn't the only thing in Toronto that left us scratching our heads. The whole Matt Barnes saga was jaw-dropping: It appears both Barnes' agent and the Raptors' front office leaked to the media that Barnes would sign a two-year, $9 million deal with the Raptors in a sign-and-trade -- in fact, every major outlet reported it.

Only one problem: The deal wasn't even remotely legal under the salary-cap rules, revealing a shocking ignorance of a very important piece of the business on the part of NBA professionals.

Look, this is pretty basic stuff. I've seen stories suggesting this was some inscrutable piece of salary-cap arcana, and it's just not true. For starters, a sign-and-trade deal has to be at least three years. Has to. That's not a difficult rule to understand. I'm pretty sure all of you got it immediately. That's why every single sign-and-trade deal that any of these guys has ever done has been for at least three years. You'd think they'd at least know from experience. But right there, much energy was spent negotiating a deal that couldn't happen.
LINK - ESPN.com


He goes on to question the Amir signing, the Kleiza signing, praises the Hedo/Barbosa trade, but also says that Barbosa is bad on D.

He also adds that the Raps are now starless and still the worst defensive team in basketball.
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Old 07-27-2010, 03:12 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Acie View Post

LINK - ESPN.com


He goes on to question the Amir signing, the Kleiza signing, praises the Hedo/Barbosa trade, but also says that Barbosa is bad on D.

He also adds that the Raps are now starless and still the worst defensive team in basketball.

I blame the barnes fiasco on the Raptors management. If you ACIE noticed right away that the deal couldn't be done, than colangelo and his group should have noticed it too.

But the rest is a matter of opinion on Hollinger's part.
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Old 07-27-2010, 03:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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And all this is news how?
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Old 07-27-2010, 03:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Yuksek View Post
I blame the barnes fiasco on the Raptors management. If you ACIE noticed right away that the deal couldn't be done, than colangelo and his group should have noticed it too.

But the rest is a matter of opinion on Hollinger's part.
Why are you blaming the Raps? Why does Hollinger, for that matter? Last time I checked it was Barnes himself who leaked the story through his Twatter.
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Old 07-27-2010, 03:15 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Why are you blaming the Raps? Why does Hollinger, for that matter? Last time I checked it was Barnes himself who leaked the story through his Twatter.

The Raptors had to offer him that deal right? How do you offer him such an impossible deal?
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Old 07-27-2010, 03:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The Raptors had to offer him that deal right? How do you offer him such an impossible deal?
We have no idea who has offered a deal to whom. We don't know if, say, Orlando has represented Barnes contractual status correctly. Or their "s&t space", for that matter.

All I am saying is that, whoever made the mistake, it has been made public by the player himself.
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Old 07-27-2010, 03:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Barnes wouldn't have had anything to talk about if the Raptors had not made an offer to him that they could not possibly make. There is honestly no excusing such a silly mistake and that's why BC was quick to change the topic when asked about this on the FAN the other day.
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Old 07-27-2010, 03:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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We have no idea who has offered a deal to whom. We don't know if, say, Orlando has represented Barnes contractual status correctly. Or their "s&t space", for that matter.

All I am saying is that, whoever made the mistake, it has been made public by the player himself.
Even so Mike..... you would think that SOMEONE in the Raps' brass would have taken a look at ORL's salary commitments before entertaining any kind of S & T.
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Old 07-27-2010, 03:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
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We have no idea who has offered a deal to whom. We don't know if, say, Orlando has represented Barnes contractual status correctly. Or their "s&t space", for that matter.

All I am saying is that, whoever made the mistake, it has been made public by the player himself.
No Doubt Barnes is a monkey (no offense to anyone on this board who might be a monkey) for releasing that information.

But like I said. Acie noticed right away the deal didn't make sense. Even if Orlando came with the deal, you as a professional are supposed to realize whether the deal made sense or not. People make mistakes, but this an off day for all parties involved right?
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Old 07-27-2010, 03:28 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Even so Mike..... you would think that SOMEONE in the Raps' brass would have taken a look at ORL's salary commitments before entertaining any kind of S & T.
+1
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Old 07-27-2010, 04:00 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I truely believe that Colangelo told Barnes and his agent that they were willing to give them a certain amount if something can be worked out with Orlando and only under those conditions and that Barnes jumped the gun by twatting!
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Old 07-27-2010, 04:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I truely believe that Colangelo told Barnes and his agent that they were willing to give them a certain amount if something can be worked out with Orlando and only under those conditions and that Barnes jumped the gun by twatting!
+1.

Man, I just noticed your post count. Holy cow!
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Old 07-27-2010, 04:40 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Good fucking lord.

Must we?

Colangelo has addressed this twice already. They called and spoke to Barnes agent, who, had the pertinent information on his salary and situation in Orlando. His agent messed up the numbers and thats was that. Barnes tweeted. Media Jumped.

You guys are beginning to bother me as a whole. You never seem to remember, or you only take what you want from what you read and hear, then formulate pretty ballsy opinions using incomplete information.

As for Hollinger. That guy rips toronto at every angle. Period.

He'll write an article about how nobody wants to be in Toronto, then a week later write a piece about how Toronto is a bad franchise because they can't surround Chris Bosh with super stars.

It's a fucking ignorant media farce written for idiot cattle who maybe don't follow the game as most of us do.

We all get that Hollinger is a dick, so we need to start ignoring him more.

Ya know. Fuck that guy!
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Old 07-27-2010, 04:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Point taken SJ but you really have to wonder..... how does a player's tweet turn into a report on "The Score's" rolling headline tracker? Are they THAT irresponsible?

You'd have to think that the rumour had some legs for people to run with it the way that they did.

And again.... why didn't anyone in the Raps' brass catch the mistake? Shit, more than a few people HERE were all over this proposed deal right away wondering how the hell it was going to get done with ORL's cap situation being what it was.

If some NBA fans could figure this out in about 2.5 seconds then how did BC (or someone else) not shoot down the possibility immediately? These guys get paid to know these things.
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Old 07-27-2010, 05:04 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Point taken SJ but you really have to wonder..... how does a player's tweet turn into a report on "The Score's" rolling headline tracker? Are they THAT irresponsible?

You'd have to think that the rumour had some legs for people to run with it the way that they did.

And again.... why didn't anyone in the Raps' brass catch the mistake? Shit, more than a few people HERE were all over this proposed deal right away wondering how the hell it was going to get done with ORL's cap situation being what it was.

If some NBA fans could figure this out in about 2.5 seconds then how did BC (or someone else) not shoot down the possibility immediately? These guys get paid to know these things.
i do wonder why they didn't take issue with the 2 year deal when s&t's can only be 3 years, but i don't see why any gm should be reposnsible for knowing the ins and outs of the payrolls and cap situations of other teams. maybe orlando had another deal pending. maybe they had released a couple of cap holds. maybe their contracts aren't exactly as reported in the media. it's quite possible that it looked to bc that things were fine and that the orlando brass told him it was a go. it is also possible, as has been suggested, that barnes' agent fucked up the numbers.

imo, it's not the responsibility of the raps to manage orlando's cap. if they were into a deal, that points to orlando's mistakes, not colangelo's.

of course the biggest problem is the tweeting and the fact that players are breaking their own news before deals are even done.
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Old 07-27-2010, 05:09 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post

If some NBA fans could figure this out in about 2.5 seconds then how did BC (or someone else) not shoot down the possibility immediately? These guys get paid to know these things.
Take away a dumb twitter post and what would you have known? Nothing, which is about all you or anyone else knows at this point. Nobody said fuck all except for Matt Barnes. It's a shame when discussions/negotiations or whatever you wanna call it gets put out there by an overzealous player who can't keep his mouth shut!
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:14 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Could you quote the whole article here? It's insider so I can't check the link. Thanks.
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:24 PM   #18 (permalink)
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the biggest issues I have with his series of articles is that he's inconsistent.
take for example the contracts given to amir johnson/drew gooden/brad miller/scola. The teams giving these articles were considered losers/winners/treading water. For toronto, the contract is horrible, for milwaukee and houston though, it's pretty good considering the market for big men this summer.

So he has no problems when other teams pay market price (or even above - there's no way miller gets that kind of money anywhere else), but toronto makes a glaring mistake in doing the same thing.

and there are quite a few similar situations in his analysis.
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:11 PM   #19 (permalink)
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i do wonder why they didn't take issue with the 2 year deal when s&t's can only be 3 years, but i don't see why any gm should be reposnsible for knowing the ins and outs of the payrolls and cap situations of other teams. maybe orlando had another deal pending. maybe they had released a couple of cap holds. maybe their contracts aren't exactly as reported in the media. it's quite possible that it looked to bc that things were fine and that the orlando brass told him it was a go. it is also possible, as has been suggested, that barnes' agent fucked up the numbers.

imo, it's not the responsibility of the raps to manage orlando's cap. if they were into a deal, that points to orlando's mistakes, not colangelo's.

of course the biggest problem is the tweeting and the fact that players are breaking their own news before deals are even done.
I dunno 'trane... isn't that part of being a GM in the NBA? Knowing the cap situation of the other teams? These guys are paid big bucks to create and negotiate deals... yes, I guess that I'd like to think that they'd have ready access to that info. If BC couldn't remember it, I'd expect him to at least have all the info on excel spreadsheets that are regularly updated.
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:16 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I dunno 'trane... isn't that part of being a GM in the NBA? Knowing the cap situation of the other teams? These guys are paid big bucks to create and negotiate deals... yes, I guess that I'd like to think that they'd have ready access to that info. If BC couldn't remember it, I'd expect him to at least have all the info on excel spreadsheets that are regularly updated.
i'm not sure if the exact terms of deals are published. i may be wrong... but he can't know what orlando's plans are, that's for sure. maybe they had another deal on the table that was going to create room? how can he be sure? if they're talking deal, he's got to assume that they can do it, no?
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