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-   -   Have we hit a low point now as a franchise? (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/have-we-hit-low-point-now-franchise-24215.html)

TORaptor4Ever 12-08-2012 10:01 AM

Have we hit a low point now as a franchise?
 
What say you?

TORaptor4Ever 12-08-2012 10:06 AM

In light of the expectations surrounding this season I can't believe that we may not make the playoffs.... AND be robbed of our first round pick as well.

I always like to be positive but it's hard to find something to rally around right now TBH. :sigh:

ClingRap 12-08-2012 10:43 AM

Here we are again. I actually didn't watch them all that much last year and they pleasantly surprised me. This year, given the off-season moves and a year more under Casey I had what I though was real hope. All a sales pitch mind you. As a fan I desperately wanted to believe that we'd get back to the playoffs and given that hockey is in disarray, make some headway towards being a legit part of the Toronto sports scene.
Fail.
Again.

I've been watching archived games on League Pass, searching for a new team to get behind, watch, and enjoy. I kind of like the Rockets right now. It's stupid to blindly follow anything in life, and honestly, I work too hard to devote my free time to a team that really isn't one, to watching a team that frustrates me. Fuck this franchise. I've been there every step of the way since '95. Which is why, if they ever get this thing right and are legitimately competitive, I'll be there to support them, but waiting for Wiggins or some other saviour. Fuck that. They owe me more as a fan.

numbah eleven 12-08-2012 10:50 AM

Just a couple of bad seasons. Not a tragedy yet.
I wouldn't call Lowry - 1st round pick exchange a robbery. A fair deal. A pain in the ass if he won't re-sign, but again, not a bad deal.

carp 12-08-2012 11:02 AM

This feels pretty bad right now. A lot of mediocre signings that people tend to overvalue..... from Amir to Landry to Kleiza..... heck, even AB and DD at 10M each.... we've loaded up on mediocrity. Ed will probably get a big extension next year and there goes his value as well. We hold onto assets too long and have no sense of timeliness and building toward a specified 3-5 year window. Tired of just trying to accumulate young, average prospects and holding out hope that because they are young they might eventually be great.

Scully 12-08-2012 11:12 AM

you can't believe we weren't going to make the playoffs? How was/is it even possible? At the beginning of the season you looked at the Atlantic conference, and said to yourself " I'm going to be shocked and disappointed if we don't make the playoffs this year"...?

we are just over a 1/4 of the way through a season with 3 new players in a starting line up, one of which is a rookie. There should be huge amounts optimism for this team. Derozan is looking great and is actually getting some calls. We have two confident rookies. Our top two rotations at SF are out with injury. And Andrea is being rumored to be trade for Pau. With that in mind last season looks a lot worse.

MBailey85 12-08-2012 11:26 AM

Yes the team has hit a low point but I don't think its an all time low point. Everybody knows what needs to be done,its just a matter of doing it. There's been times in the past where it felt like we didn't know what's gonna happen next. The frustrating thing about what's happening is,it feels like the Raptors are a new franchise team. They've been around for nearly 20 years but only has one division championship and one playoff round victory.

thought 12-08-2012 11:43 AM

i'm not even mad, or down about it. just apathetic as fuck. and THAT upsets me.

Dark Knight 12-08-2012 11:43 AM

I think at this point there's a very good chance we land in the top 3. So I'm not too worried about tanking.

Deez 12-08-2012 11:46 AM

It was worse when they drafted Hoffa, Vince turtled, they traded him for some stained underwear and the whole league was laughing.

Hang in there folks, just a couple more beat downs and they should be a .450 team the rest of the way. Woo-hoo! And it may not sound like much, but Anderson's return should help.

Lowry/Calderon
Derozan/Ross
Pietrus/Anderson
Bargs/Ed
JV/Amir

Yet another year hoping for the best with spending money in the offseason.

Windex 12-08-2012 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Knight (Post 717131)
I think at this point there's a very good chance we land in the top 3. So I'm not too worried about tanking.

too bad there are no franchise players in the draft :(

MBailey85 12-08-2012 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Knight (Post 717131)
I think at this point there's a very good chance we land in the top 3. So I'm not too worried about tanking.

1. Washington
2. New Orleans
3. Cleveland
4. Toronto(losses the coin toss after winning final game of the season to tie the Cavs record)

jeffb 12-08-2012 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Knight (Post 717131)
I think at this point there's a very good chance we land in the top 3. So I'm not too worried about tanking.


I'd be stupified even with where we are right now if we end up with a top 3 pick. In 6 days (december 15) our road trip will over and more moves can be made. I would expect that by the following monday or tuesday one or several moves will have been made imo. If it even takes that long. I say we end up with 22-25 wins and give up the #5-6 pick to pick to OKC.

I'd also laugh if we end up 4-5th worse only to move up to 3rd in the lottery in a shit draft. OKC will end up in 2014 with a top 6-7 pick in a deep draft mark my words.

thought 12-08-2012 11:51 AM

you also know things are bad when realgm is wishing sam mitchell would come back

Shadowfax 12-08-2012 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClingRap (Post 717107)
As a fan I desperately wanted to believe that we'd get back to the playoffs and given that hockey is in disarray, make some headway towards being a legit part of the Toronto sports scene.
Fail.
Again.

this ^
the Toronto Raptors have blown a golden opportunity imho...in fact, i would wager that they've completely alienated any potential basketball fans across this country with their piss poor record and play

carp 12-08-2012 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windex (Post 717134)
too bad there are no franchise players in the draft :(

If we can get a guy on Ross' level, that'd be fine... just as long as he's not a PF or SG. The two easiest positions to fill and we've overloaded on them!

:cookie:

Windex 12-08-2012 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 717137)
I'd be stupified even with where we are right now if we end up with a top 3 pick. In 6 days (december 15) our road trip will over and more moves can be made. I would expect that by the following monday or tuesday one or several moves will have been made imo. If it even takes that long. I say we end up with 22-25 wins and give up the #5-6 pick to pick to OKC.

I'd also laugh if we end up 4-5th worse only to move up to 3rd in the lottery in a shit draft. OKC will end up in 2014 with a top 6-7 pick in a deep draft mark my words.

also add that we've played 13 road games (1-12 record) and 7 home games (3-4) so far.

Windex 12-08-2012 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 717142)
If we can get a guy on Ross' level, that'd be fine... just as long as he's not a PF or SG. The two easiest positions to fill and we've overloaded on them!

:cookie:

probably going to look at getting a PG since Lowry is our biggest asset, and unlikely to resign. Caldy gone as well.

I hear theres another Euro big man in the draft this year. If BC is here don't be surprised if Rudy Gobert is taken ;)

better to lose the pick this year then in 2014, when there is 3 franchise guys in the draft.

pzabby 12-08-2012 12:09 PM

bosh was there when we had 33 wins and we were much more talented then.. been worse

LX 12-08-2012 12:10 PM

This season feels like the equivalent of Gurk barfing in a cab. But without the good times beforehand.

Gurk 12-08-2012 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX (Post 717151)
This season feels like the equivalent of Gurk barfing in a cab. But without the good times beforehand.

LOL, uhm I didn't watch the game yesterday so I am not feeling so bad about the Raptors now but after each loss I am usually really pissed off. Last night must've been so shit the Raptors got crushed.

FLO 12-08-2012 12:15 PM

Every single thing Colangelo has done so far this season has been bad.

-Demar's contract. I'm a fan of DD, but his contract is too big and it was given when there's no competition to set his market value.
-Fields signing. Negative impact, isn't playing, injured. All bad.
-Signing Lucas. Negative impact, scrub, never plays.
-Lowry for a pick. Lowry has had no discernable impact, he's playing extremely frustrated and probably won't re-sign unless we dramatically overpay him. Losing pick for nothing to OKC
-JV.
-Ross. Looking very average, nothing really stands out aside from the odd play here and there. Looks like an average wing at best while other players drafted after are looking much, much better.
-Signing Grey to 2 year deal. WTF?

carp 12-08-2012 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLO (Post 717154)
Every single thing Colangelo has done so far this season has been bad.

-Demar's contract. I'm a fan of DD, but his contract is too big and it was given when there's no competition to set his market value.
-Fields signing. Negative impact, isn't playing, injured. All bad.
-Signing Lucas. Negative impact, scrub, never plays.
-Lowry for a pick. Lowry has had no discernable impact, he's playing extremely frustrated and probably won't re-sign unless we dramatically overpay him. Losing pick for nothing to OKC
-JV.
-Ross. Looking very average, nothing really stands out aside from the odd play here and there. Looks like an average wing at best while other players drafted after are looking much, much better.
-Signing Grey to 2 year deal. WTF?

What about JV????? Also, Ross is showing more than a few flashes... but he's a rookie. He's probably not ever as impactful as Drummond, but we lost out on Barnes cause we kept riding guys looking for contracts. Gross.

raptor123 12-08-2012 12:29 PM

We should not be at all surprised on way we are as an organization. Now for many folks its not on Lowry its not our heros fault, its all BC and his staff.
Last year we made a tremendous improvement on defence....The players bought into what DC was doing....it led all to believe that we were heading into the right direction.

Well our management team was wrong......hell i bitched about it right from the beginning.Whyyyyyyy ?

What position did the best consistent player play last year...... ask that question to yourself ????We will comeback to that question in a bit .

What position did we get the least consistent play last year.......ask that question to yourself ????We will comeback to that question in bit .

We traded a 1 st round pick during the summer to improve our team....did we actually do that ???????.......i don't think our team improved.

We knew that we had JV coming as a rookie. We knew it was going to be a work in progress and we knew who we wanted to draft.... it was Ross so again another rookie another work in progress .

So now go back to the first 2 questions....answer them and see why we are worst this year on track to being the all time worst in history !!!!!!....What did the management staff do to upgrade the team ??????

:cookie:

pzabby 12-08-2012 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLO (Post 717154)
Every single thing Colangelo has done so far this season has been bad.

-Demar's contract. I'm a fan of DD, but his contract is too big and it was given when there's no competition to set his market value.
-Fields signing. Negative impact, isn't playing, injured. All bad.
-Signing Lucas. Negative impact, scrub, never plays.
-Lowry for a pick. Lowry has had no discernable impact, he's playing extremely frustrated and probably won't re-sign unless we dramatically overpay him. Losing pick for nothing to OKC
-JV.
-Ross. Looking very average, nothing really stands out aside from the odd play here and there. Looks like an average wing at best while other players drafted after are looking much, much better.
-Signing Grey to 2 year deal. WTF?

pietrus?
lowry no matter how you spin it was a great move for a team looking to make the playoffs, it's just too bad the rest of the team minus bargnani has no clue defensively
fields been injured, that's not BC's fault. give the kid a damn chance will ya?!
I fail to see the negative with JV
ross is special looking to end up good, similar to derozan in his rookie year. showed potential, and got there.
derozan was not overpaying. he's played great this season, and with his work ethic will only get better
we need a 3rd string pg no matter how you put it, when lowry went down we needed lucas off the bench.
gray signing was somewhat dumb I admit, but maybe gray was saying he wouldn't take a 1 year deal and with the uncertainty of how JV would preform he was a need pickup




did I miss anything else to logically make sense of?

:cookie:

FLO 12-08-2012 12:42 PM

Hold on, you're suggesting Bargnani has a clue defensively?

And it's not a matter of "spinning" Lowry. The results speak for themselves. He hasn't helped us win games.

carp 12-08-2012 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLO (Post 717168)
Hold on, you're suggesting Bargnani has a clue defensively?

And it's not a matter of "spinning" Lowry. The results speak for themselves. He hasn't helped us win games.

He does, he just doesn't try.

Lowry, I agree, has not helped... but it's early and we're underestimating how long it takes to develop chemistry, especially with a shoot first PG after most of these young players have been used to Jose making it much easier for them.

TORaptor4Ever 12-08-2012 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLO (Post 717168)
Hold on, you're suggesting Bargnani has a clue defensively?

And it's not a matter of "spinning" Lowry. The results speak for themselves. He hasn't helped us win games.

He's kept us IN games that would have been blowouts otherwise.

As I said back when we had Bosh.... basketball is a TEAM sport.... not an individual one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowfax (Post 717141)
the Toronto Raptors have blown a golden opportunity imho...in fact, i would wager that they've completely alienated any potential basketball fans across this country with their piss poor record and play

Couldn't agree more.

I was actually pretty excited at the prospect of the Raps pulling some new fans and really getting the city behind them with no competition from the Leafs.

So much for that idea.

Windex 12-08-2012 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowfax (Post 717141)
this ^
the Toronto Raptors have blown a golden opportunity imho...in fact, i would wager that they've completely alienated any potential basketball fans across this country with their piss poor record and play

Its gotten to a point where I've only seen a couple games to completion this year
and I used to watch at least half of the games before 2011

Shadowfax 12-08-2012 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever (Post 717178)


Couldn't agree more.

I was actually pretty excited at the prospect of the Raps pulling some new fans and really getting the city behind them with no competition from the Leafs.

So much for that idea.

i'd take it much further than that my friend...BC is always going on about the Raps being Canada's team...well last time i checked, the Raps are the only team IN Canada that's playing right now...nothing else

i'm not saying they have to be world beaters to gain attention...just create some positive headlines across the country...get the fringe talking/interested...create some kind of a buzz

instead we get this shite...it's incredibly disappointing to say the least

dfunkie1 12-08-2012 01:18 PM

i think the all-time low was 04-05

it was a very very hard year being a raptors fan.

TORaptor4Ever 12-08-2012 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowfax (Post 717183)
i'd take it much further than that my friend...BC is always going on about the Raps being Canada's team...well last time i checked, the Raps are the only team IN Canada that's playing right now...nothing else

i'm not saying they have to be world beaters to gain attention...just create some positive headlines across the country...get the fringe talking/interested...create some kind of a buzz

instead we get this shite...it's incredibly disappointing to say the least

At least we have dem Argos? :lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfunkie1 (Post 717184)
i think the all-time low was 04-05

it was a very very hard year being a raptors fan.

Looking back at it now... yeah... that's prob. the case. At least we had had a taste of the playoffs shortly before that though.

Bmats7returns 12-08-2012 01:43 PM

Interesting question.

I think losing Vince for Williams, Williams and the license to use Alonzo Mourning's name for 3 days was worse.

This is more depressing though I'd say. We've lost 80% of our games. 80%!!!!!

fancylad 12-08-2012 02:24 PM

this is absolutely the lowest.

Nites 12-08-2012 03:07 PM

You know it's bad when this board pretty much goes down into meltdown. People who I've seen supporting the Raps for the last 5 years on here are almost about to give up.

Metallikid 12-08-2012 03:14 PM

I wasn't paying attention and was too young when Vince was here, but I'd wager that even despite his poor play and foot out the door, actually trading him for the Williams poo-poo platter must have the been the worst.

I'm with thought on this one; the bad losses have just made me apathetic about the team and that's the most disappointing part. They really could have avoided much of this fan strife if they just hadn't sold it as a year we might contend for the playoffs. I've already decided to tune the Raps out after this season unless I specifically see the changes that are needed, despite knowing we'll be very, very bad if/when that does happen.

The real rub is that if these necessary moves don't happen, or don't happen soon enough in regards to player personnel (which will obviously be the first thing to change), I think MLSE runs a real risk of alienating a large portion of the fan base for good. :cookie:

ollyaaa 12-08-2012 03:17 PM

You'll be back! There's no other team like the old Raps!

Metallikid 12-08-2012 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nites (Post 717225)
You know it's bad when this board pretty much goes down into meltdown. People who I've seen supporting the Raps for the last 5 years on here are almost about to give up.

Exactly. The major reason this is so frustrating is because they sold this as a potential playoff team when we're clearly still far away from that goal. It's especially frustrating because on paper they did seem good enough (I don't think anyone expected Bargnani to be an all-star, but I think even fewer people expected a career low year for him in virtually every category) and that brought out a lot of optimism (shit, I was so pumped I got tix to six of the best games of the year in anticipation). The mix of those two elements became a deadly combination when none of it panned out.

The farther expectations are from reality, the more dissonance it will create and therefore, the more anxiety.

LX 12-08-2012 03:28 PM

Here's the thing. This low is pretty much the constant in the history of this franchise.

Kirby 12-08-2012 03:39 PM

The talent level out on the floor is pathetic, I can't believe some are blaming Lowry for trying to carry the load from these pathetic excuse for players and saying he hasn't helped at all. Mind you we have one of the toughest schedules early on and Fields hasn't shown us what he could do yet, so there's still a little hope now that there are rumors that Bargnani will be traded for a great talent in Gasol.


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