Have the players tuned out the coaching staff?
Old 12-16-2009, 01:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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The coaches harp, but is anyone listening? Marc Iavaroni, the assistant who specializes in defence, was seen chewing out reserve guard Marco Belinelli during last night's third quarter. Belinelli's response? He snapped back at Iavaroni, then moved down the bench a few seats so he was out of shouting range.
LINK - Toronto Star
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Honestly this isn't surprising. IMO, the players are not at all confident in the schemes and are starting to tune them out. The fact is the players brought in here have all done well elsewhere. What, are they all stupid and lazy all of a sudden? The players look lost, frustrated and seem to lack any direction out there. And something has to give.

Am i the only one that just doesn't see any organized plays out there, they look as if they're winging it without any sets half the time.
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:22 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Honestly this isn't surprising. IMO, the players are not at all confident in the schemes and are starting to tune them out. The fact is the players brought in here have all done well elsewhere. What, are they all stupid and lazy all of a sudden? The players look lost, frustrated and seem to lack any direction out there. And something has to give.
I dunno about well with the exception of Turk.

1. Bellinelli: He never seen close to this many minutes in Gstate
2. Weems: He is actually getting good minutes of late
3. Evans: hasn't played but I did see him at Pizza Hut last night
4. Amir: Amir is the first big off the bench with Toronto .. he hasn't had a position more than that anywhere else
5. Jack: Has been a backup every place he played


Etc. Etc.

I think the better players godda step up with some leadership. Jose/Bosh/Bargs were all here to be the base of the core and maybe Jose's firey attitude starts with leadership but I don't see any with Bosh and Bargs. Add Hedo to that mix you have players that just don't help the coaches
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I dunno about well with the exception of Turk.

1. Bellinelli: He never seen close to this many minutes in Gstate
2. Weems: He is actually getting good minutes of late
3. Evans: hasn't played but I did see him at Pizza Hut last night
4. Amir: Amir is the first big off the bench with Toronto .. he hasn't had a position more than that anywhere else
5. Jack: Has been a backup every place he played

1. Belinelli: got more MPG in GS last season and then averaged 15ppg while starting 15 games and was liked by the fans.Plus he's thrived when playing in Europe and is a career 40% 3pt shooter everywhere he's played.

2.Weems: imo was just a throw in so whatever good we get from him is a bonus

3. Evans is hurt so nothing to say there.

4.Amir: is only 22 and never got a chance on a good team in Detroit so i'll give you that one.

5. Jack: was a starter for a good part of last seasona and the season before. Here he's a backup and is only starting because of Jose's injury and has been inconsistent and at times looks lost.

I'll add:

6. Hedo: Played alot better in Orlando under a much better coach and better system (obviously on a better team) and was in many people's opinion Orlando's best player in the Finals.

7. Antoine Wright: A guy that had guys here excited and the coaching staff in Dallas upset to lose his toughness and leadership. Where is that here?


The fact is all of these players (to a lesser degree Weems imo) have talents that aren't being utilized properly and i truely believe that the players don't agree with this system in the least and therefore lack the confidence to go out there and execute some of the simplest of things. I remember about 2-3 weeks ago Triano was asked if maybe the team just needed to go back to basics on defense to get back on track, his response was "we are just now at the basics", this about a month into the season and after all the training camp time+ pre-season. The players don't believe in this coaching staff, period.

Last edited by jeffb; 12-16-2009 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Well I'm not gonna fight about marginal gains of our rotation players. The fact is the team has zero leadership.

Even Bargs cussed out the team for missing a defensive assignment
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:45 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Belinelli mouthing off the coaching staff? That's the fuckin attitude we need right now.

Does he not realize he's like the 9th man on the team? What an idiot.
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:52 PM   #7 (permalink)
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This is not the first time a player snapped back at the coaching staff. At Atlanta, Calderon argued with Triano when Triano tried to point out some defensive mistakes in the beginning of the second half when Bibby scored 8 straight ponts. The coaching staff is not going to last, and if BC replaces Triano with Iavaroni he deservess to be fired.
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:52 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Belinelli mouthing off the coaching staff? That's the fuckin attitude we need right now.

Does he not realize he's like the 9th man on the team? What an idiot.
Actually he's the 6-7th. He's averaging more minutes off the bench then Wright/Amir/Weems or anyone else other then Jack who's no longer coming off the bench.And despite his current shooting woes is still shooting a better 3pt% then Bargnani/Turkoglu/Jack.
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Belinelli mouthing off the coaching staff? That's the fuckin attitude we need right now.

Does he not realize he's like the 9th man on the team? What an idiot.
In my experience it's usually the lesser star players that blow up at the coach when they are full of idiots.

When you have a guy that doesn't play as much and has to watch the trainwreck giong on in front of him and is unable to do anything about it, they get frustrated. Then when they have a chance they are more likely to go against the coach because they are trying to make something happen that is truly missing and they can see from the bench.

When you have players thinking the coaches are stupid (and I've been on those kinds of teams) you always seem to lose. Players aren't usually into calling out coaches so when they do, the coaches are usually stupid.

(I'm just talking about in general here not specifically to the incident or even necessarily the way it actually is right now)
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Old 12-16-2009, 02:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
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From the outside looking in, I think the players never actually tuned in to this coaching staff in the first place. Who do these bitches think they are to "not have confidence" in the schemes? The players have been sabotaging everything the coaching staff has been preaching all year. The real issue is the coaches not taking them to task for it. If anything that's their biggest mistake, they're being way too nice. The players probably like the coaches a whole lot. Hugs all around. They sure as hell don't seem to respect or fear them though.
For example: Turkoglu has been floating along all season like he just doesn't give a shit. SVG would have reamed him a new one long ago.
This team is full of spoiled little children. They need a disciplinarian.
The old adage states: you can't fire the players.
I hate to say it because I really like Triano too, but he and his entire staff have to go.
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Old 12-16-2009, 02:27 PM   #11 (permalink)
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and who in the hell bring this guy Marc Iavaroni? Was he ever on a winning team????? "DEFENCIVE SPECIALIST" HHAHAHAHAHAAHA, Are you kidding me?????
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Old 12-16-2009, 02:33 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Even Bargs cussed out the team for missing a defensive assignment
That would be a wake up call if ever there was one!
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:26 PM   #13 (permalink)
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All I can say is that if you have to be TOLD to how to box out, get back on D and move the ball then you shouldn't be in the NBA.

These are BASIC basketball skills that any HIGH SCHOOL player should know after a year or two of organized ball.

The players are lazy. Plain & simple.

And apparently this coaching staff (like this team) is full of too many nice guys to do anything about it.
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Rick Carlisle had kind words for Antoine Wright because he was just so relieved to get rid of him...
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Old 12-16-2009, 04:53 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I hope they all get fired. THey suck and we need a much better coaching staff. THey oull one game outta there asses and can't respond afterwards
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Old 12-16-2009, 05:22 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I truly believe that due to Jay Triano being afraid to get in players faces and actually criticize or call out players when it is necessary, the players have lost their respect for him.
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Old 12-16-2009, 06:22 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Give the players some idea of a game plan that can work before deciding they are just lazy. The lack of hustle comes only after the lack of a real plan fails miserably and leaves them in a hole, with no real sense from the coaches on how to get out of that hole.

The way that game was approached last night was a travesty, and fed right into Miami's hands. There's no way this team should look like an expansion team like they did last night.
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Old 12-16-2009, 06:29 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Give the players some idea of a game plan that can work before deciding they are just lazy. The lack of hustle comes only after the lack of a real plan fails miserably and leaves them in a hole, with no real sense from the coaches on how to get out of that hole.

The way that game was approached last night was a travesty, and fed right into Miami's hands. There's no way this team should look like an expansion team like they did last night.
Getting back to prevent easy transition buckets is NOT a gameplan... it's basic basketball! (unless you're whole team is crashing the offensive glass)

Boxing out properly is NOT a gameplan either! And neither is diving for loose balls!

Those things require EFFORT. Nothing else.

I have no problem if people say "Bosh isos too much at the top of the key which stifles our movement"... or "our out of bounds plays suck".... or "we double-team far too early in our defensive possessions"....

... but this (IMO) is something different.

This team puts me to sleep not because of their incompetence... but because of their constant apathy.
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Old 12-16-2009, 06:33 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Getting back to prevent easy transition buckets is NOT a gameplan... it's basic basketball! (unless you're whole team is crashing the offensive glass)

Boxing out properly is NOT a gameplan either! And neither is diving for loose balls!

Those things require EFFORT. Nothing else.

I have no problem if people say "Bosh isos too much at the top of the key which stifles our movement"... or "our out of bounds plays suck".... or "we double-team far too early in our defensive possessions"....

... but this (IMO) is something different.

This team puts me to sleep not because of their incompetence... but because of their constant apathy.
Well said.
Apathy breeds more apathy.
I find myself watching the games the same way Hedo plays them.
Struggling to give a damn.
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Old 12-16-2009, 07:25 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I truly believe that due to Jay Triano being afraid to get in players faces and actually criticize or call out players when it is necessary, the players have lost their respect for him.
+5

I was so excited going into this season, we'd have another win or 2 if we had reggie.. guy can only bring so much energy from the bench.. that's assuming the fact he could show the whole team what it means to play hard... not sure if he could teach that though....ahhh.... nuke this bitch to smithereens!
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