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Metallikid 04-06-2011 08:47 PM

The hard truth about the rebuilding Raptors
 
I had a realization that I felt I needed to share with the rest of you and it is simply this:

Taking everything into account, I honestly don't see many changes happening to this club at all over the next two-to-three years (four in the case of a lockout). That's not to say there won't be any changes; I'm sure BC will be making several more moves during his tenure here. Rather, I think BC has realized that the major flaws in our plan the last few years has been threefold:

One, building around a single player who cannot carry a franchise (I'm generally skeptical about the whole "franchise player" idea; the only players who I feel can fit that status are ones that impact the defensive end as much or more than the offensive end, while doing both at a very high level, which typically can only be done by players who play around the basket and those who have to guard opposing wings i.e. dominant centres, power forwards and small forwards. So in short; LeBron, Howard, Duncan, Garnett, Shaq, etc.

Two, the frequent player turnover and the lack of chemistry and confidence that can have on a club.

Three, the idea of plugging roster holes with veterans/free agents instead of building a team from the ground up through the draft, and small trades for players with potential that will develop together.

With all that said, here are my predictions:

BC stays for another three years, period. It's best to finish something once you've started it. And don't expect Triano to be leaving anytime soon, he'll be here as long as BC is, provided he doesn't shit the bed.

As for the roster, Andrea isn't getting moved until at least the season after next to give him a fair shot at being the #1 option. I also don't see Jose getting traded unless we get another offer like the one with Chandler, as Bayless is far from being an 82-game starting point guard. As for the rest I think the core is mostly set: DeMar, Davis, Bayless, Johnson, and to a lesser extent Alabi and Kleiza. I think all of these guys are going to get their fair shot at being the players that this team begins to contend for a championship with, as crazy as that sounds now. Stop all this 'we need a star player' talk; we aren't going to trade for one, we won't be a favoured destination for free agents anytime soon, and you have to get extremely lucky to land a player in the draft who becomes an all-star within three seasons. If we do become a playoff team, and eventually contenders, the next few years - it's going to be with a team-based focus, ala the Detroit Pistons.

This is the hard truth guys, so if you don't like it, you aren't going to enjoy watching the Raps for a long time coming.

jeffb 04-06-2011 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metallikid (Post 527523)
This is the hard truth guys, so if you don't like it, you aren't going to enjoy watching the Raps for a long time coming.

Truth according to you.

LX 04-06-2011 08:55 PM

a lot can happen in a year or two. That's the soft-serve truth. With chocolate dip.

jeffb 04-06-2011 08:59 PM

In Basketball a couple good moves can make a big difference. And if BC is around by the end of the summer my guess is he won't be too inactive. And i would think that after 3 straight non playoff seasons, ownership will push to speed things up a little. Either way, if not much is done in the next couple seasons one thing you can probably expect is Derozan, Davis wanting out of dodge. Which is one reason it won't happen.

LX 04-06-2011 09:01 PM

Wow - that sounds like a plan Jeff. Just keep shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic. Excellent. Imma going to go vote in that poll now. I want your version of BC gone pronto.

jeffb 04-06-2011 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX (Post 527549)
Wow - that sounds like a plan Jeff. Just keep shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic. Excellent. Imma going to go vote in that poll now. I want your version of BC gone pronto.

What, keeping our young players and adding to them. Yeah very drastic. :cwm34:


Did you expect him to do nothing? Or whoever comes in if he leaves, to do nothing. Hell if a new guy comes in you can probably expect more moves then if BC stays.

LX 04-06-2011 09:06 PM

Fine - I focused too much on the idea of speeding things up in a panic to keep Davis and DD around. That would be ridiculous.

There are going to be redundancies and pieces that don't fit. That would be what I see being the biggest problem with a guy like Bargnani. Jose, Bayless and Barbosa could all be made available if we draft a pg. But I don't want to see too much of a commitment made to any kind of home-run move at this point. Make sure everything compliments the rest. No more imbalance and cognitive dissonance please.

jeffb 04-06-2011 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX (Post 527554)
Fine - I focused too much on the idea of speeding things up in a panic to keep Davis and DD around. That would be ridiculous.

No, i'm just saying some moves will have to be made to at least get back to the playoffs in the next year or two. And considering the next two years we have some capspace (pending CBA) moves will be made. To say not much will be made is a little short sighted.

JoeyJoJo Shabbadu 04-06-2011 09:56 PM

I like fiction. Nice read.

ha123 04-06-2011 10:04 PM

The only thing im worried about with this rebuilding is that we may end up like timberwolves. They have been tanking since they lost KG and they have gotten no where. Kevin love is no franchise player.

Ammo 04-06-2011 10:12 PM

There are a few reasons why I think things will change:

-duplication at certain positions
-money to spend
-BC's getting his pride and feelings hurt this year
- assets that are sitting this year and next....TPE, Barbosa expiring, a year or two ticking off Jose's contract, etc
- 1 more year for certain guys to reveal themselves as hopeless

halphbreedballer 04-07-2011 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ha123 (Post 527611)
The only thing im worried about with this rebuilding is that we may end up like timberwolves. They have been tanking since they lost KG and they have gotten no where. Kevin love is no franchise player.

But he is better than AB as far as best players go...

halphbreedballer 04-07-2011 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 527530)
Truth according to you.

I gotta agree with jeffb on this one...

Superjudge 04-07-2011 09:10 AM

I think too many people dismiss the fact that Toronto is in canada and NOBODY wants to come here as the main issue holding this team back.

BballWatcher 04-07-2011 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superjudge (Post 527724)
I think too many people dismiss the fact that Toronto is in canada and NOBODY wants to come here as the main issue holding this team back.

Bleh. We've had a couple of Canada-related breaks the past five years or so (Jesus blocking John Salmons from coming here, no luck signing Rashard Lewis (the first time, when the contract was reasonable), the Calderon for Tyson Chandler trade being turned down (probably due to Jordan's weak-knees on the deal, but when have you ever heard of an accepted trade falling through), etc. But, we've had our fair share of "big" signings - Marion, Hedo, Jermaine O'Neal, etc. Many of our moves just haven't worked out.

Scully 04-07-2011 04:54 PM

Hasen't Traino been rolling around in that shitty bed for the majority of the season? As for rejection of All stars as a bases of a franchise or the fact that you believe free agency is a waste of time, I am not really sure how to respond. Other If we are just relying on the draft to revitalize the team 2-3 years is terribly optimistic. This team is desperate need of veteran leadership. When was the last time this team had a player who played in 2nd round of a playoff let alone quarter final or semi. Marion/ O'neal. When the last time we had 2 onm the same team ?. Youth is great, but you don't win games with out experience, you don't even develop your youth to there full potential. Our collective playoff experience is what? (I just going off memory, so I could be wrong here) bargs/ caldron share 5 games (1 win), And what ever Klieza may have gotten behind Anthony in Denver.

The way I see it we dump Bargs and our pick for play off proven C and what ever. We take this opportunity in a historically weak draft. We dump Traino and look for D first Coach Ie. L. Frank. We move J.J. to the bench for a Veteran SF, with the idea they split time. Then try to move Jose for a mid level (1st) pick at the dead line.

raptorchick 04-07-2011 06:54 PM

I don't know who would want Barg and the 4 years left on his contract. People talk about ORL so he can play alongside Howard but no way ORL wants to have really weak unathletic defenders at both PF and SF (Barg and Turkoglu). Barg has really really limited appeal due to his contract and 1-dimensional game. I doubt we'll be able to move him at all.

FoldedLaundry 04-07-2011 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raptorchick (Post 527972)
I don't know who would want Barg and the 4 years left on his contract. People talk about ORL so he can play alongside Howard but no way ORL wants to have really weak unathletic defenders at both PF and SF (Barg and Turkoglu). Barg has really really limited appeal due to his contract and 1-dimensional game. I doubt we'll be able to move him at all.

For some reason seeing Bargs with Dwight reminds me of Dirk and Chandler. Will it work I don't know :confused2:

LX 04-07-2011 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raptorchick (Post 527972)
I don't know who would want Barg and the 4 years left on his contract. People talk about ORL so he can play alongside Howard but no way ORL wants to have really weak unathletic defenders at both PF and SF (Barg and Turkoglu). Barg has really really limited appeal due to his contract and 1-dimensional game. I doubt we'll be able to move him at all.

There are going to be teams - Houston last season comes to mind - that are strong defensively but are desperate for a guy that can score. Houston was willing to take on Kevin Martin. Maybe it's harder to fathom a big that is weak defensively finding a place, but I can envision teams thinking of using him as a specialist off the bench, or surrounding him with enough size and length to make it work. Marion was able to make the Andrea experiment work pretty well. James Johnson helps here to some extent. I wouldn't be shocked to see some GM somewhere convince himself that he can be the one to make it work with the right guys. It might take us giving up another player like Bayless.

I agree that Orlando would be nuts to take him. It's going to have to be a lesser team with a need for offense, that likes the risk at a decent price.

komot 04-07-2011 10:13 PM

100% agree with this.
i'd like to add unless we get lucky and draft a franchise player we will be mediocre for a long time. as much as i hate bosh he brought us into places that only the hate vince was able to do before him.
frankly i think it is more important getting a good coach such like what philly got.


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