"Guys who know how to play" - Page 2
Old 12-07-2012, 06:57 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Everyone is important, from GM to scouts to coaches to players. It's just that some things are easier to fix than others.

For instance, it's kinda easy to change players and coaches (assuming good trades and good candidates are available). But even then Lakers go ahead and hire a great run-and-gun coach for a team laden with great veteran half-court players...

What every GM and fan wants from their teams is the maximum output from a given personnel. Last year, for the most part, Raps were giving that night in and night out. This season, for whatever fascinating reason, they are not, not even close, at both ends of the floor, at least not on a consistent basis. This team is never going to be mistaken for a contender, but their personnel is obviously much better than their record would suggest. BC (or whoever takes over) should be primarily concerned with finding out why.
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:11 PM   #22 (permalink)
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You (or your brother) seem to be confusing "Guys who know how to play" with role definition. Calderon would be a quintessential "guy who knows how to play" but is he a right fit with this team? I don't think so, not any more. Guys expecting the ball to come back to them has more to do with role definition and chemistry. Role definition is solely on the coach, while chemistry is built over time. Besides the Spurs, Boston and Dallas, not many teams just have a bunch of players who just know how to play. Most teams rely on talent and coaching. So I disagree with your brother, getting guys who know how to play is not our primary concern, which is not an easy task in the first place.
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:24 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bjjs View Post
It's only taken three games for Pietrus to look like the most high-IQ NBA player on the team.

How many times Bargnani looked him off in the post against Brooks makes me assume Bargnani still has no clue.

Kyle doesn't trust his teammates.

At Iverson's pinnacle he was good enough to take 1/2 his team's shots, but also maintain the respect of his teammates. His teammates believed in him and played hard for him. He was good enough.

Lowry is not good enough to be that guy; he needs to trust his teammates a little more, and stop yelling at refs on failed drives to the net.
I'd agree with that.
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:55 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
You (or your brother) seem to be confusing "Guys who know how to play" with role definition. Calderon would be a quintessential "guy who knows how to play" but is he a right fit with this team? I don't think so, not any more. Guys expecting the ball to come back to them has more to do with role definition and chemistry. Role definition is solely on the coach, while chemistry is built over time. Besides the Spurs, Boston and Dallas, not many teams just have a bunch of players who just know how to play. Most teams rely on talent and coaching. So I disagree with your brother, getting guys who know how to play is not our primary concern, which is not an easy task in the first place.
No offence, but you missed the point
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:14 PM   #25 (permalink)
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i agree for the most part, except that it is players fault and not coaches. Sure Chemestry is our biggest problem but good coach deal with these things. It is coaches job to make sure that team is one unit, that everybody is on the same page and that players know their roles.. That's why we have a coach in the first place
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Old 12-08-2012, 04:22 AM   #26 (permalink)
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very good discussion about lowry and bigs
I seldom contribute in Toronto Raptors chat mostly because I have nothing good to say about this team and I don't want to be all negative... looks like guys finally touched few core issues with Raptors (other than Bargs sucks) in this thread

Lowry is playing hard BY HIMSELF. he's obviously lost trust in his team mates. I think he's not trusting his coach either

whoever said Bargs and Val together is defensive disaster is absolutely right. While I see the need of developing Val I don't understand why he's getting ahead of Gray when we need a big body presence or getting ahead of Davis when we need to compensate for Bargs defensive liabilities and lack of rebounding

If this is not Raptors' tanking season, I'd like to see some starting lineup changes and redistribution of minutes.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:22 AM   #27 (permalink)
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very good discussion about lowry and bigs
I seldom contribute in Toronto Raptors chat mostly because I have nothing good to say about this team and I don't want to be all negative... looks like guys finally touched few core issues with Raptors (other than Bargs sucks) in this thread

Lowry is playing hard BY HIMSELF. he's obviously lost trust in his team mates. I think he's not trusting his coach either

whoever said Bargs and Val together is defensive disaster is absolutely right. While I see the need of developing Val I don't understand why he's getting ahead of Gray when we need a big body presence or getting ahead of Davis when we need to compensate for Bargs defensive liabilities and lack of rebounding

If this is not Raptors' tanking season, I'd like to see some starting lineup changes and redistribution of minutes.
Val has to play. If you want this team to develop him getting minutes is the most important thing on this teams agenda. THis team reeks, there is no playoffs in the next two years, they are going to be getting there asses handed to them plenty this season and on into the future. Putting Aaron grey does nothing, NOTHING. Don't allow the shitiness of this team to blind you to how good this kid could be. Defensively he has to learn his role, but realize where he is coming from, what he has seen and experienced as a player overseas is completely polar to what is going now.

Offensively Jonas needs touches. How the hell does a starting center, with his ability at the line get under 10 field goal attempts in almost three games, most of which were created by him going out and getting offensive rebs. Lowry's and his pick role should be the back bone of this offense going forward. He needs this experience, the kid catches everything but he needs touches to see how he is going to react out of those situations.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:55 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Val has to play. If you want this team to develop him getting minutes is the most important thing on this teams agenda. THis team reeks, there is no playoffs in the next two years, they are going to be getting there asses handed to them plenty this season and on into the future. Putting Aaron grey does nothing, NOTHING. Don't allow the shitiness of this team to blind you to how good this kid could be. Defensively he has to learn his role, but realize where he is coming from, what he has seen and experienced as a player overseas is completely polar to what is going now.

Offensively Jonas needs touches. How the hell does a starting center, with his ability at the line get under 10 field goal attempts in almost three games, most of which were created by him going out and getting offensive rebs. Lowry's and his pick role should be the back bone of this offense going forward. He needs this experience, the kid catches everything but he needs touches to see how he is going to react out of those situations.
Agreed... this team is too focused on perimeter iso's to feed JV, their sole post presence... given that Casey has AB camped out beyond the three point line to make space for DD's drives into four defenders.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:20 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Scully View Post
Val has to play. If you want this team to develop him getting minutes is the most important thing on this teams agenda. THis team reeks, there is no playoffs in the next two years, they are going to be getting there asses handed to them plenty this season and on into the future. Putting Aaron grey does nothing, NOTHING. Don't allow the shitiness of this team to blind you to how good this kid could be. Defensively he has to learn his role, but realize where he is coming from, what he has seen and experienced as a player overseas is completely polar to what is going now.

Offensively Jonas needs touches. How the hell does a starting center, with his ability at the line get under 10 field goal attempts in almost three games, most of which were created by him going out and getting offensive rebs. Lowry's and his pick role should be the back bone of this offense going forward. He needs this experience, the kid catches everything but he needs touches to see how he is going to react out of those situations.
you basically saying that the team should forget about playing better with what they have and focus there entire effort on developing one player...

Don't get me wrong I like Val and I think he's going to be one of the 20/10 guys in this league, but I also think that he should be learning how to compete. unfortunately, so far he's not developing in competitive environment.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:12 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Curious as to why your brother "dismissed" Lowry... because in my estimation he's the very essence of a "player who just knows how to play". Does whatever it takes for his team to succeed.

.
I do not see that. I see player who has great hustle and heart but has no basketball IQ, does not create for teammates and makes dumb and sometimes selfish decisions all the time. I would love him on my fantasy team, would hate to play with him or have him on my favorite team.
Rondo on the other hand would be a player I would trade all Raptors team and build around.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:42 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I don't think there's any question that lowry is not playing the right way. He's a very good player with some significant limitations.

The real question though is, is he playing like this because of his team mates/coach/injuries, or this is his temperament. Because, as good as he is, if this is his normal play, not sure I want to commit major money to him long term.


As for JV, I've been saying this from the beginning, he shouldn't start. He's a horrible defender right now and I can't understand why his development is tied to a start role. Let him come off the bench, give him a tighter leash so he earns his PT and slowly increase his role. I'm pretty disappointed with him so far, I was expecting hustle, rebounding and shot blocking and he's been fairly average in all 3 areas.

Rebounding is particularly worrisome, virtually anybody who plays alongside Bargnani gets a major boost in rebounds JV averages slightly under 8 boards per 36 minutes which is quite low ..
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:28 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I can't understand the hate for lowry, really can't. dude's straight up balling in the fourth, and it's working, cause he has to. Bargnani brick from three thanks to casey's schemes he can't pass to, Derozan fadeaway mid range game since he won't get calls driving thanks to stern he can't give the ball to, and val the superstar but rookie can't really be all that trusted in the fourth in crunch time. he's taking it to the rack, and getting the calls. done.

our problems lay not on the offensive end. for the upteenth time, they lie on the defensive end
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:59 AM   #33 (permalink)
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so the players that are important (imo) to this team moving forward:
I love Lowry but it would be great if he could take that next step offensively and create more for others.
JV struggles quite a bit, but I guess that's to be expected from a rookie centre. Potential is undeniably there, and i love how hard he works on both ends of the floor
It's very hard to get angry at JV even when he fucks up, because kid is by far the hardest working player on our team.
DD- I was extremely happy what i saw from him early in the season, but something changed and reality is slowly kicking in.
Ed needs more playing time he deserves it!
Ross ^ + he is awesome, I'm a bit worried about his shot selection at times though.
Jose could be important if he would be resigned at much more reasonable contract, otherwise i hope he's gone.
Bargs.... I won't even start, you probably know what i think about him by now.
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