Greivis Vasquez - Page 7
Old 12-14-2013, 10:49 PM   #121 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,348
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
IT2? Isaiah Thomas? You mean the guy he played with in Sacramento and didn't fit with at all? A 5'9 PG and slow 6'6 PG might be the worst defensive backcourt in the league if they played at the same time m
hahahaha... jeez... can't believe I didn't notice that. I do think that Greivis just didn't fit in with SAC and the way that they play... rather than not fitting with IT2.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 12:15 AM   #122 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,332
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ball Don't Lie View Post
We need to go as far away from having 2 average PGs and having another PG controversy as possible.
you honestly make me wonder if you watch the games.
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 03:23 AM   #123 (permalink)
a nacho hound

Senior Member
 
Toby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South of Portland, home of the Blazers
Posts: 4,882
Representing:
Default

You guys have 2 starting PG's now.
Lakers currently have 0 starting PG's
Knicks, currently have 0 starting PG's (Prigioni is a decent player, but he's no starter)
Philly, just watched them. Without MCW, they looked like they need a starting PG

You guys may get a warning from the league, for hoarding starting PG's.
Just sayin', watch yo back
Toby is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 07:07 AM   #124 (permalink)
playoffs please dont end

FTMFW
 
Shifty.py's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,588
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby View Post
You guys have 2 starting PG's now.
Lakers currently have 0 starting PG's
Knicks, currently have 0 starting PG's (Prigioni is a decent player, but he's no starter)
Philly, just watched them. Without MCW, they looked like they need a starting PG

You guys may get a warning from the league, for hoarding starting PG's.
Just sayin', watch yo back
We are always ready to give away Stone and Buycks - for a 2nd rounder
Shifty.py is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 10:38 AM   #125 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby View Post
You guys have 2 starting PG's now.
Lakers currently have 0 starting PG's
Knicks, currently have 0 starting PG's (Prigioni is a decent player, but he's no starter)
Philly, just watched them. Without MCW, they looked like they need a starting PG

You guys may get a warning from the league, for hoarding starting PG's.
Just sayin', watch yo back
GV could start if in the extremely correct conditions - like Jose. Solid backup though, like Jose.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 10:56 AM   #126 (permalink)
kicking himself for being so emotionally invested in the Roller-coaster Raptors

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,457
Representing:
Default

I love GV's energy. He's definitely like Jose part 2. I hope we keep him.
BballWatcher is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 12:37 PM   #127 (permalink)
We going to the 'ship!

Senior Member

 
Ball Don't Lie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,629
Representing:
Default

Quote:
you honestly make me wonder if you watch the games.
I feel the same way about you. You make it seem as if we were a successful team when we had the PG controversies. If losing in the 1st round is the pinnacle of the 2 PG experiment, I guess that's a successful season in certain Raptors fans eyes.
Ball Don't Lie is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 01:47 PM   #128 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,348
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ball Don't Lie View Post
I feel the same way about you. You make it seem as if we were a successful team when we had the PG controversies. If losing in the 1st round is the pinnacle of the 2 PG experiment, I guess that's a successful season in certain Raptors fans eyes.
PG controversy aside, I would think that you'd be in love with Vasquez.... because he actually makes an effort to do what you've been harping on for ages now.... involve the bigs.

I would love it if the P & R would become part of the identity of our team.... kind of like the way it was for those old Jazz teams. Even when Stockton & Malone weren't on the floor they would always kill you with that play.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 02:17 PM   #129 (permalink)
We going to the 'ship!

Senior Member

 
Ball Don't Lie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,629
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
PG controversy aside, I would think that you'd be in love with Vasquez.... because he actually makes an effort to do what you've been harping on for ages now.... involve the bigs.

I would love it if the P & R would become part of the identity of our team.... kind of like the way it was for those old Jazz teams. Even when Stockton & Malone weren't on the floor they would always kill you with that play.
I like Vasquez, but in a 20- mpg role. As I've said before, if he's playing over 20 minutes per game consistently, your team isn't going to be a winner. If we're able to re-sign him for cheap as a backup PG, I'd be thrilled, because he's an ideal fit as a backup PG, and would be one of the best in the NBA.

And I totally agree about our team needing to become a pick and roll team, which is what we've been doing the past 4 games luckily, but the issue is Lowry isn't good enough at it to where our bigs can consistently get open looks on pocket passes. Vasquez has the same issues vs good teams, as they go under pick and rolls with him, thus there's no opening for the easy pocket pass for bigs, but instead Vasquez is forced to either force the action with penetration which he isn't good at, or shoot a long 2.

This is why we need to get an infusion of talent in the draft, a player capable of creating for himself and for others off the bounce, and get one of the young PGs in upcoming free agency(IT, Bledsoe) or trade(Dragic). Ideally it'd be fantastic to have a PG/SF combo who can both create, and Val could play off those guys as he continues to develop his own offensive game, and this would also give him a lot more room on post ups, and catches off screen roll to be able to make his move without perimeter players sitting in his lap
Ball Don't Lie is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 02:25 PM   #130 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,332
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ball Don't Lie View Post
I feel the same way about you. You make it seem as if we were a successful team when we had the PG controversies. If losing in the 1st round is the pinnacle of the 2 PG experiment, I guess that's a successful season in certain Raptors fans eyes.
Sorry man but I think Lowry has been playing very well and I think GV is a better than average backup thru a really small sample size since the Gay trade. I don't know why you would think there was a PG controversy when its really clear that Lowry will start until he's traded.

And you would prefer one good pg and one piece of crap because we fear a pg controversy so much? Just the timing of your post confused me. Do you think there is even a remote chance that we are finishing the season with both these guys? Lowry will be traded, GV will start and we will eventually draft or sign another PG.
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 02:39 PM   #131 (permalink)
We going to the 'ship!

Senior Member

 
Ball Don't Lie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,629
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyJoJo Shabbadu View Post
Sorry man but I think Lowry has been playing very well and I think GV is a better than average backup thru a really small sample size since the Gay trade. I don't know why you would think there was a PG controversy when its really clear that Lowry will start until he's traded.
I was speaking in general with my original post, that I'd rather see us go out and get a real starting PG and have a vet back up for him rather than see an average starting PG and a an above average backup PG duel for minutes. It's mostly speaking to the past with TJ/Jose, Jack/Jose, and Lowry/Jose, but to answer your question, IF we were to hypothetically keep them both around for the rest of the season, I'd guarantee there would be a PG controversy at some point, which is never good for a team because good teams need consistency and chemistry with who they're playing with so they can effectively play off each other, and if we keep switching who gets the majority of minutes one game to the next it only hurts a teams chemistry and flow overall IMO.

Quote:
And you would prefer one good pg and one piece of crap because we fear a pg controversy so much?
No, I want a really good starting PG and someone to maintain consistency behind him when he needs a breather. It's not a matter of having a bad backup PG to ensure the starter gets all the minutes, it's about the starter getting all the minutes because he's that good, and the backup seeing limited time because the starter is able to effectively play 36 mpg and be totally effective out there. If you have a really good backup PG, a situation where there's complaints of playing time, or the coach adjusting the lineup for the worse(2 PG lineup) will happen where it could hurt the team(in a lot of cases, not all, see OKC)

Quote:
Just the timing of your post confused me. Do you think there is even a remote chance that we are finishing the season with both these guys? Lowry will be traded, GV will start and we will eventually draft or sign another PG.
Again, my post was very general, in a sense that I want to see us acquire a top level PG and avoid going down the same route as the last 7 years in having a time share at PG between 2 good players because it just doesn't turn out well.
Ball Don't Lie is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 04:21 PM   #132 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,226
Representing:
Default

I think PG is a fairly easy position to fill these days. Every year there are 3-5 good point guards coming into the league and almost every team has a quality PG. Same for PFs. Two way centers are rare, but good defensive centers with decent offensive skills (like robin lopez) are also not that uncommon. What we need, first and foremost, is an elite wing. These are rare and nearly every good team has a elite two way wing.

If we got that wing, I think we could easily get by with lowry/demar/amir/JV as the other 4 starters, provided demar and JV improve their defense to at least the next level.

The main problem is we won't get that top wing unless we trade lowry and perhaps another player. The best thing that could happen to us, in a sense, would be to get a rush of injuries - sucks to say that, but it's true. I can't really wish for that, so the next best thing is to hope we trade starters for quality assets and hope we'll get better replacements in free agency. Because elite wings are not gettable, but solid pg/pf are signed in FA all the time.
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 09:56 PM   #133 (permalink)
T. Ross IS The Phantom Menace.

Lackey
 
Ammo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Mighty North Tundra
Posts: 3,475
Representing:
Default

Guess General Greivis likes Beyonce

Instagram
Ammo is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 10:07 PM   #134 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,348
Representing:
Default

Wonder if we'll be seeing GV start as early as this week (since Lowry may be on his way out VERY soon)?
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2013, 05:05 PM   #135 (permalink)
useless

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,200
Representing:
Default

I don't really like GV as a starting point guard, I think he's better coming off the bench as a combo guard.

His lack of speed is a problem, and can be masked somewhat by bringing him off the bench and having him play against second string opposition.

Also, I like him as a shooting guard since he's got good size for that position and his lack of foot speed is less of an issue there.

I'm really enjoying seeing Lowry and Vasquez give the Raptors high level point guard play throughout the game, and I also like the way the ball moves when they're both on the court at the same time.

I'm generally not a fan of two point guard line ups, but Vasquez is so big for a point guard, and has a very nice offensive game with his floaters in the paint and his three point shooting. With him it just seems to work.

I'm hoping the Raptors keep Lowry for at least a little while longer, I think they've really got a good thing going with him and Vasquez.
EggsToTheBBQ is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2013, 05:26 PM   #136 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,332
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EggsToTheBBQ View Post
Also, I like him as a shooting guard since he's got good size for that position and his lack of foot speed is less of an issue there.

.
He's 8th in assist ratio for PGs, 5th for starters and is far down the list of PGs for TS% (never mind SGs). No thx.
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2013, 05:45 PM   #137 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,348
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyJoJo Shabbadu View Post
He's 8th in assist ratio for PGs, 5th for starters and is far down the list of PGs for TS% (never mind SGs). No thx.
He also led the league in total assists 2 seasons ago and was 2nd in the running for MIP.

It's entirely possible that SAC was just a bad fit for him. Why don't we wait and see once he starts getting some more minutes before judging him?
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2013, 06:32 PM   #138 (permalink)
useless

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,200
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyJoJo Shabbadu View Post
He's 8th in assist ratio for PGs, 5th for starters and is far down the list of PGs for TS% (never mind SGs). No thx.
Greivis can run the offense as a SG.

Position in basketball determines the role on defense, not the role on offence.

There have been many great teams over the years that run the offence from positions other than point guard.
EggsToTheBBQ is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2013, 07:05 PM   #139 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,332
Representing:
Default

Dat pregame interview... pretty positive guy.
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2013, 10:16 PM   #140 (permalink)
straight ballin'

Senior Member
 
Dario's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Vancouver BC Canada
Posts: 8,129
Representing:
Send a message via Skype™ to Dario
Default

bad game for him, really bad today
Dario is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24