The Great Debate is over.
Old 04-29-2008, 09:36 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default The Great Debate is over.

A year ago, even two I think, I made a post on another Messageboard that many of us were on. The post dealt with me desire to see, at the time, a straight up swap of two players. Budding Franchise star, allstar Big man with range and quickness and a responsible personality, Chris Bosh, for 21 year old, raw, "offensively limited" but athletically gifted Big man, Dwight Howard.

You know, I was stunned when I saw how many guys on that board flipped thier Cyber-cyber lids at the mere suggestion that the future of Raptor ball, the Franchise, the "Anti-Vince Carter" even be mentioned in the same sentence as the word trade. I was floored. I mean to me it was a no brainer, anyone who had ever had to post up a big man like that, proportionally of course, knew how much trouble they caused. But nobody is ever afraid of a jumpshooter.

At that time, it was actually a deal that you never know, with Howard in his coaches dog house on any givin night, and Bosh having his best season ever, might well have been something Orlando could have pondered. Alas it was never to be, and I was a fool.

Well I think it's safe to say now that the debate can now be put to sleep. I have read tonnes of posts through this series, all blaming Bosh, Mitchell, other players, but very few simply logical enough to point out that Dwight Howard was simply unguardable. He was too big, too good, cleared too much room for his team mates to not just knock down shots, everyone can do that, but space enough to know they will have room, know they will have a clear look, and be ready to hit it when it came. NBA guards left to knit sweaters in the corners won't miss.

I'm not here to give anyone the "I told you so". But I am here to hopefully, and in a healthy, non-negative way, put this whole Bosh VRS Howard thing to rest. There is now comparison. Howard is a budding MEGASTAR. He is the next great center, he was then, and he is now. I like Chris Bosh, I like him on my team. I think he's got a good head on his shoulders, and he is a very good player. He's an allstar. But he isn't a game changer, and he certainly isn't a TWO WAY FORCE. Dwight Howard is, and the scary thing, he's only just now starting understand what he might be capable of.

Debate over.
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Old 04-29-2008, 09:43 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Well, thats for you, I still prefer Bosh over Howard.
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Old 04-29-2008, 09:49 AM   #3 (permalink)
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You prefer first round defeat then.
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:01 AM   #4 (permalink)
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You prefer first round defeat then.
It's obviously more complicated than that. Orlando has more pieces than we have. They have a legitimate triple threat that was able to carry them to 56 wins and counting without what is considered a strong pure point guard, plus an experienced playoff coach.

I think Howard is a more effective player than Bosh...but much of that has to do with his physical gifts. He simply dominates because of his size, strength and athleticism where Bosh is more finesse and shooting. I think both players are underutilized which is kinda scary actually...in both cases. Bosh still has a way to go, and really i think would benefit just as much from a big man coach as Howard has, even though they play a different game. Howard simply has to keep doing what he's doing and he'll become one of the more dominant guys we've seen. Either way they're going to have some crazy good battles for the next several years i think.
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:06 AM   #5 (permalink)
saying too many dudes are Tyson Chandler, trying to lead their teams and went nowhere

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I don't know how many times I've said this, but I'm going to say it again. Bosh and Howard play different positions. Howard is a centre, Bosh is a powerforward. Bosh can't keep up with Howard because Howard weighs 40 pounds more than Bosh. Howard can't really keep up with Bosh because he's not as quick/nimble.

It's like comparing Luol Deng with Bosh. Apples and oranges.
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:32 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I agree that comparing the two is a little unfair as Bosh isn't a centre, but if i was to say which of them are simply "better", then the answer is easily Dwight Howard. He gave Bosh and the raps a royal spanking when it counted and his strength was just too much. Oddly, the Magic did have an answer of Bosh.

Given that they don't play the same position, i do wonder why it was the Bosh vs. howard matchups that were the focal point of this series? They were constantly paired together on both ends of the floor. Why was Bosh playing centre? Wouldn't it have made more sense to put Rasho in there against Howard?
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:36 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Unbelievable

You guys must have misse the last 5 games.

I don't give a shit.

If you wouldn't make that trade, I'm sorry, you clearly do NOT understand the game the way you should.

And I know you do.

So stop being homers.

You just watched a Beast rip your team apart.

Yet you stand there, trying to explain to me how they play different positions?

Fuck me, so do Lebron James and Jose Calderon. Would you do that move????

Because trust me, the chasm is that wide in both scenario's.

I'm sorry guys, Bosh dropping 34 had Zero effect on game 4.

Dwights 20 and 20 was MASSIVE!
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:37 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LyRrAd_Nation View Post
I don't know how many times I've said this, but I'm going to say it again. Bosh and Howard play different positions. Howard is a centre, Bosh is a powerforward. Bosh can't keep up with Howard because Howard weighs 40 pounds more than Bosh. Howard can't really keep up with Bosh because he's not as quick/nimble.

It's like comparing Luol Deng with Bosh. Apples and oranges.
I agree, but the thing is I like players that dont base all their game on their physique. They are diferent, but Bosh has better IQ, better shotter, and specially better FT shooter. If we had a Turkoglu on our team I bet the result would have been different.
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:39 AM   #9 (permalink)
saying too many dudes are Tyson Chandler, trying to lead their teams and went nowhere

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Unbelievable

You guys must have misse the last 5 games.

I don't give a shit.

If you wouldn't make that trade, I'm sorry, you clearly do NOT understand the game the way you should.

And I know you do.

So stop being homers.

You just watched a Beast rip your team apart.

Yet you stand there, trying to explain to me how they play different positions?

Fuck me, so do Lebron James and Jose Calderon. Would you do that move????

Because trust me, the chasm is that wide in both scenario's.

I'm sorry guys, Bosh dropping 34 had Zero effect on game 4.

Dwights 20 and 20 was MASSIVE!

You know what you're being right now? A jock rider. Stop it. It's sick.
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:43 AM   #10 (permalink)
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SJ speaks the truth.

Howard is on another level than Bosh.
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:44 AM   #11 (permalink)
saying too many dudes are Tyson Chandler, trying to lead their teams and went nowhere

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I understand you being upset and all that shit. We all are. But don't go into Chuck mode where you fall into total deep admiration with the dude. Did Howard and crew get the better of us? He/they sure did. God bless 'um. Best of luck next season. Now it's time to go back to the drawing board and prep for next season. We have a top-5 big man in the league. Teams in the league would kill to have a guy like Bosh and here are some of our fans, wanting to burn the dude at the stake. It's sick. Orlando rolled 3-deep with Howard, Turkoglu and Lewis. We don't have that. We don't even have a #2 option. Believe me, if the Magic didn't have a #2 option either, our guys would have fucked them royally. Bottom line is that we have one star 11 role players. You can't win like that.
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:45 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LyRrAd_Nation View Post
You know what you're being right now? A jock rider. Stop it. It's sick.


You know whats frightening, I think you're serious. And you spend how much time worshipping the sport of basketball, yet, clearly, you have no idea what its all about.
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:47 AM   #13 (permalink)
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on the "so many teams want Bosh" issue.

Ask 30 Gm's if they had a choice, Bosh or Howard?

You'd get a 30 - 0 Unanimous answer buddy, don't fucking doubt that for a second
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:49 AM   #14 (permalink)
saying too many dudes are Tyson Chandler, trying to lead their teams and went nowhere

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Oh, I know what it's all about. We have one star that has no support. That's exactly what it is. Look at the stats - Magic have what? 3 cats that averaged > 19 ppg. We have 1, and the next dude averaged 12. You can't play like that.
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:50 AM   #15 (permalink)
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on the "so many teams want Bosh" issue.

Ask 30 Gm's if they had a choice, Bosh or Howard?

You'd get a 30 - 0 Unanimous answer buddy, don't fucking doubt that for a second
Given that i agree with you on that point, it made no sense to talk about any potential trade, which is why i stayed within the realms of reality and offered what I thought the Raps should do with Bosh(better utilization, big man coach) since he is our guy and he ain't going anywhere
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:52 AM   #16 (permalink)
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the trade was from the beginning of the 06/07 season, not this past one Nasty.

Thats when it was maybe doable.

I now now it's light years from possible.
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:53 AM   #17 (permalink)
saying too many dudes are Tyson Chandler, trying to lead their teams and went nowhere

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on the "so many teams want Bosh" issue.

Ask 30 Gm's if they had a choice, Bosh or Howard?

You'd get a 30 - 0 Unanimous answer buddy, don't fucking doubt that for a second
What you're doing is criticizing Bosh. The guy can't do it on his own. He performed a lot better than last year's playoffs. Name 1 player that stepped up in this series for us? Name one player other than Bosh that was counted on to score? Is Howard a talent? Sure. But it's a lot easier to do your thing when you have 2 other good options.

Ps - Stop being a "Chuck".
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:56 AM   #18 (permalink)
saying too many dudes are Tyson Chandler, trying to lead their teams and went nowhere

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the trade was from the beginning of the 06/07 season, not this past one Nasty.

Thats when it was maybe doable.

I now now it's light years from possible.
You put Howard on the Raptors and Bosh on the Magic and we still would have been fucked. Period. THAT you can't dispute and if you do, maybe you should check yourself into St. Joe's right down the street.
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:57 AM   #19 (permalink)
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How do the other two talents help Howard average 20/20 on 60% shooting and 5 blocks a game.

Did you ever stop to think maybe he makes them better by being on the floor with them?
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Old 04-29-2008, 10:58 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Im with Hoops, its easy to look good what a team that performs so well. From your point of view SJ, nelson is ten times bettter than Calde and TJ, and sorry but he is not.
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