Grantland: Are we sure Ujiri is that good? - Page 2
Old 02-21-2014, 09:20 AM   #21 (permalink)
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To me it always comes back to - BC was great at individual moves. His draft, his trades, all good execution. Usually found creative ways to play the cap with his signings (Hedo sign and trade comes to mind). Each individual move was well conceived (even when it was a risk, such as the JO deal) and well executed.

But his big picture was pretty bad. Throwing away assets to get Rudy Gay (who the team is infinitely better without this year). Holding onto Bargs for so long, seemingly as a centerpiece. Trying to surround Bosh with JO, Turk, etc - all good individual moves, that led to a completely flawed team. His team building is where he failed.

So to say that because his pieces are being used correctly now that it is his team is wrong. He was always capable of getting the pieces - he just couldn't use them. All credit to Ujiri seeing what pieces needed to go and which needed to stay, in terms of the current success of the roster.
agree ... BC never had the conviction or clear bigger picture strategy ... the clarity on how individual moves help build the foundation for a championship team, etc ...

MU seems to be a longer term thinker towards building a championship team ... time will tell.
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Old 02-21-2014, 09:26 AM   #22 (permalink)
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To me it always comes back to - BC was great at individual moves. His draft, his trades, all good execution. Usually found creative ways to play the cap with his signings (Hedo sign and trade comes to mind). Each individual move was well conceived (even when it was a risk, such as the JO deal) and well executed.

But his big picture was pretty bad. Throwing away assets to get Rudy Gay (who the team is infinitely better without this year). Holding onto Bargs for so long, seemingly as a centerpiece. Trying to surround Bosh with JO, Turk, etc - all good individual moves, that led to a completely flawed team. His team building is where he failed.

So to say that because his pieces are being used correctly now that it is his team is wrong. He was always capable of getting the pieces - he just couldn't use them. All credit to Ujiri seeing what pieces needed to go and which needed to stay, in terms of the current success of the roster.
I agree with this, but I would also add that Collangelo had a hard time giving up control and empowering his coach to actually coach. Coaches are without a doubt the greatest experts as far as the actual game goes. When a GM publicly goes over the head of any coach, he is not going to endear himself to the coaching community. Hence why Collangelo was then stuck with Triano, somebody desperate just to get a shot as a HC. Casey imo is looking like a good hire, but there were plenty of rumours floating around that Collangelo was micromanaging Casey like he was Triano and Mitchell (Ie. the rumour about the separate meetings between the board and each of Casey and Collangelo).
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:49 PM   #23 (permalink)
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i remember watching tim and sid after the bargani trade, just give MU the gm of the year now
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:53 PM   #24 (permalink)
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To me it always comes back to - BC was great at individual moves. His draft, his trades, all good execution. Usually found creative ways to play the cap with his signings (Hedo sign and trade comes to mind). Each individual move was well conceived (even when it was a risk, such as the JO deal) and well executed.

But his big picture was pretty bad. Throwing away assets to get Rudy Gay (who the team is infinitely better without this year). Holding onto Bargs for so long, seemingly as a centerpiece. Trying to surround Bosh with JO, Turk, etc - all good individual moves, that led to a completely flawed team. His team building is where he failed.

So to say that because his pieces are being used correctly now that it is his team is wrong. He was always capable of getting the pieces - he just couldn't use them. All credit to Ujiri seeing what pieces needed to go and which needed to stay, in terms of the current success of the roster.
Agreed, other then the throwing away assets in the Rudy Gay trade. Jose was thankfully on his way out anyway, Ed Davis was an asset but Gay is 10x better and a 2nd round pick which i've never really given a shit about tbh. That trade was a steal for us and a no brainer talent wise. Fit wise, looks like that was a different story. lol
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Old 02-21-2014, 01:34 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Agreed, other then the throwing away assets in the Rudy Gay trade. Jose was thankfully on his way out anyway, Ed Davis was an asset but Gay is 10x better and a 2nd round pick which i've never really given a shit about tbh. That trade was a steal for us and a no brainer talent wise. Fit wise, looks like that was a different story. lol
That was my point. The trade itself was great. The decision to acquire Gay (who was terrible for us) was the problem, and that problem cost us those assets. Won the trade, but without Ujiri finding as good a deal as he did for Gay (from what reportedly was the only team in the league interested) would have been a set back asset wise long term.
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Old 02-21-2014, 04:14 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I go back to ownership being the biggest problem. BC was not compelled to stick to an overall vision, and all the meddling in the culture of the whole organisation fed right into the kind of meddling bjjs refers to. BC was a perfect GM for mlse at the time. And Lieweke detests him. And there is not the kind of board in place to muddy the difference. Things have changed. A bunch.
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Old 02-21-2014, 04:29 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Agreed, other then the throwing away assets in the Rudy Gay trade. Jose was thankfully on his way out anyway, Ed Davis was an asset but Gay is 10x better and a 2nd round pick which i've never really given a shit about tbh. That trade was a steal for us and a no brainer talent wise. Fit wise, looks like that was a different story. lol
I'd disagree in that jose Calderon was an asset. Detroit traded Ben Gordon and future first for little used Maggette, to get an expiring for unloading Ben Gordon. The bobcats basically have a top 10 pick this year and if it's not conveyed by this year, next year it's top 1. Detroit was interested in jose and would have definitely preferred his expiring over maggetes expiring, but BC wasn't really a big fan of 1st rounders.
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Old 02-21-2014, 05:10 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I'd disagree in that jose Calderon was an asset. Detroit traded Ben Gordon and future first for little used Maggette, to get an expiring for unloading Ben Gordon. The bobcats basically have a top 10 pick this year and if it's not conveyed by this year, next year it's top 1. Detroit was interested in jose and would have definitely preferred his expiring over maggetes expiring, but BC wasn't really a big fan of 1st rounders.
Well said. BC could've tried to do a deal like that - taking on more salary for 1st rounder(s) with Barbosa as well but instead he stuck to his idea of keeping his limited and essentially non-existent "flexibility".
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