Grantland: The Raptors make over
Old 12-31-2013, 11:42 AM   #1 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 72,777
Representing:
Raptors Grantland: The Raptors make over

The overhaul of the Toronto Raptors - Grantland


Quote:
The Raptors had a lot of legitimate reasons for trading Rudy Gay — his bloated salary, his inefficient game, and the difficulty of planning the franchise's path without knowing whether Gay would exercise his mammoth $19.3 million player option for next season. But they also understood the possibility that flipping the team's offensive centerpiece for rotation flotsam could send the Raptors into chaos — and into a top-five spot in the most anticipated lottery since 2003.

It was not a coincidence that Toronto engaged the Knicks in Kyle Lowry trade talks just days after sending Gay to the reaching Kings.The immediacy of the Lowry talks also revealed two truths that will define the next six weeks of Raptordom:

1.*The market for Lowry, and whatever other veteran pieces the Raptors might wish to slough off, might not be as robust as the team had hoped. Tanking is painful on its own, and it's especially tough this season, with so many miserable teams at the bottom of the standings. Tanking can bring a double blow if the process includes selling off talent at a discount rate simply for the sake of getting worse without any guarantees in the end.
Real talent has value; knowingly wasting that value hurts and comes with a cost.

2.*The Gay trade might have made the Raptors better —*an outcome that was not hard to predict. At the time of the trade, Gay was poisoning Toronto with a toxic and nearly unprecedented combination of volume shooting and bricklaying.

Almost any team would get better by excising a player hogging possessions at Iversonian levels and shooting 38 percent.1The Raptors added four useful rotation players, three of whom filled in positions where the team had minimal NBA-level talent: backup big man and backup point guard.Not even the most cockeyed Raptor optimists could have expected this: Toronto is 7-3 since the trade, with road wins over Dallas and Oklahoma City and a point differential in that stretch that would rank just behind Portland's very strong overall mark. Two of the three post-Gay losses came against San Antonio, and the Raps didn't yet have the Kings' trade bounty for the first of those games. The Raps now sit atop the embarrassing Atlantic Division with a content group of players, a fun, whirring offense, and*the toughest schedule to date of any Eastern Conference team."You can sink and drown, or you can float," DeMar DeRozan explained to Grantland over the weekend in Toronto while discussing his reaction to the trade. "And we out here like Michael Phelps."Toronto has scored 105.8 points per 100 possessions since dealing Gay, nearly five points better than it managed with a Rudy-centric offense.2Toronto is flinging the ball from side to side, one pick-and-roll bleeding into the next on the opposite wing, bending opposing defenses until an opening emerges.

The Raptors are passing the ball 30 more times per game since the trade, per SportVU data provided to Grantland, and shooting about three more 3-pointers — an intended benefit of replacing Gay in the starting lineup with Terrence Ross. "The ball is just constantly moving," DeRozan says. "We don't care who scores, or who shoots the ball. Masai [Ujiri, the team's GM] made the best decision for us to win. You hate to see a close friend go, but he made a good decision. It's paying off now."Dwane Casey, the Raps head coach, chuckles at the idea that Toronto has dramatically changed its offense since the Gay trade.

"All the same sets," he says, smiling, though the equation has tilted a bit more toward the pick-and-roll.

3*That has been a boon for Lowry, enjoying his best sustained stretch since his peak in Houston, and for all of Toronto's big men — especially Amir Johnson and Jonas Valanciunas. Johnson has long been a dynamic pick-and-roll finisher, and though Valanciunas is still in the early stages of learning to time his cuts to the rim, he's gotten better at ducking for little post-ups below Lowry/Johnson pick-and-rolls:

Quote:
"The ball is moving," Casey tells Grantland. "Guys are playing together. Everyone is buying in. No disrespect to Rudy, but he's a different type of player."This run has put Ujiri and the front office in an awkward position. Only two weeks ago, they were prepared to deal Lowry for future assets and dive headfirst for a top-five pick. That process may have included testing the market for DeRozan, though the Raptors are clearly growing comfortable with the idea of DeRozan as a long-term core piece. But Toronto has been winning with the kind of spirited, fun ball this city has been craving for years. And as it has done that, the rest of the tank brigade has continued to flounder around it. Milwaukee has Larry Sanders back, but the rest of the frontcourt is in shambles, O.J. Mayo is somehow a bench player, and Khris Middleton is routinely leading the team in shot attempts. Philadelphia is 6-21 since a 3-0 start.

Orlando has shown spunk of late with Glen Davis back, but it's still just 10-20, a trade away from going down the drain. Utah has been better with Trey Burke, but it's still awful. The real possibility exists that neither flaming pile of basketball dung in New York City figures it out this season. Sacramento played the Spurs and Heat tough in a back-to-back, but its defense has stagnated, and it is just 3-6 since acquiring Gay.Then there are the swing teams — Chicago, Charlotte, Detroit, Cleveland, and the Lakers, who look poised to implode with Pau Gasol ailing.

Some of these teams will do better than expected; some will do worse. This is a deep draft, but you don't tank for the no. 7 pick. You tank for the no. 5 pick or better, and at 13-15 with an elite backup point guard in Greivis Vasquez, it's unclear whether trading Lowry would be enough for the Raptors to tank into the ideal range.Add in the cost of tanking, and it's clear Ujiri and his team face a thorny choice. Getting worse isn't pain-free. It alienates a fan base that can only take so much, especially when there is nothing close to a guarantee that said losing would net Canadian proto-legend Andrew Wiggins.

4*It can build bad habits among unmotivated players. It can cause friction between the coaching staff and management, which is why Casey wisely stays out of the entire discussion. "Masai is the boss," Casey says. "I'm a company guy. I've gotta go with him.

I'm never going to talk about losing games on purpose. I won't even discuss it. [Management] doesn't bring it down here, but they have every right to talk about it. They have to think about the big picture. What I have to do is coach the guys we do have, and coach the heck out of them."

Last edited by jeffb; 12-31-2013 at 01:47 PM.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 12:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,600
Representing:
Default

If we deal Ross for Afflalo like he suggests in the article I will be furious.
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 01:16 PM   #3 (permalink)
LX
with pink peppercorns

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,516
Representing:
Default

Really nice piece.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 01:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
is a free agent

Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,694
Representing:
Default

It's too late to tank now. The EC is weak and only if we go ahead and trade Lowry, DD and Amir for some sort of value and expiring we might, just might be bad enough and lucky enough to tank, hopefully for top 5 pick, but I highly doubt so. Also, I think DC has been doing a pretty solid job post the Gay trade. He may not be an elite head coach but he isn't the worst either. Our D is very solid as of late and our offence is fun to watch. Players are sharing the rock. JV looks good, Ross is looking better, Lowry is doing great while he is here and we have some decent pieces here. I believe MU won't tank at this point, and if he will, he might be criticized badly for blowing things up while the team is finally starting to look like a team.
Tommy C is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 01:47 PM   #5 (permalink)
Exalted

Senior Member
 
DDUnreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,331
Representing:
Default

Love all Zachs stuff. I agree the immediate stretch of the schedule is very important, considering how many ways we can go.
DDUnreal is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 02:35 PM   #6 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,600
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy C View Post
It's too late to tank now. The EC is weak and only if we go ahead and trade Lowry, DD and Amir for some sort of value and expiring we might, just might be bad enough and lucky enough to tank, hopefully for top 5 pick, but I highly doubt so. Also, I think DC has been doing a pretty solid job post the Gay trade. He may not be an elite head coach but he isn't the worst either. Our D is very solid as of late and our offence is fun to watch. Players are sharing the rock. JV looks good, Ross is looking better, Lowry is doing great while he is here and we have some decent pieces here. I believe MU won't tank at this point, and if he will, he might be criticized badly for blowing things up while the team is finally starting to look like a team.
We're not even 30 games in and we have 3 wins more than the Magic. Deal Lowry to a struggling team like the Knicks, Nets, Cleveland, etc. and there's less competition too. Masai could easily tank if he wanted to. With one of the worst defenders in the league starting at PG, a stacked position in the league, this team could lose more than 2/3 of its remaining games.
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 02:45 PM   #7 (permalink)
LOG
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
LOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 7,963
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy C View Post
It's too late to tank now. The EC is weak and only if we go ahead and trade Lowry, DD and Amir for some sort of value and expiring we might, just might be bad enough and lucky enough to tank, hopefully for top 5 pick, but I highly doubt so. Also, I think DC has been doing a pretty solid job post the Gay trade. He may not be an elite head coach but he isn't the worst either. Our D is very solid as of late and our offence is fun to watch. Players are sharing the rock. JV looks good, Ross is looking better, Lowry is doing great while he is here and we have some decent pieces here. I believe MU won't tank at this point, and if he will, he might be criticized badly for blowing things up while the team is finally starting to look like a team.
I feel like Nick Nurse deserves a lot of credit for our improved offense.
LOG is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 02:46 PM   #8 (permalink)
LX
with pink peppercorns

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,516
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
We're not even 30 games in and we have 3 wins more than the Magic. Deal Lowry to a struggling team like the Knicks, Nets, Cleveland, etc. and there's less competition too. Masai could easily tank if he wanted to. With one of the worst defenders in the league starting at PG, a stacked position in the league, this team could lose more than 2/3 of its remaining games.
A deal for Lowry makes very little sense for pretty much every team. Even NY figured that out. So what's so easy exactly? Masai says there's nothing easy available to him. And there's this -

Quote:
Ujiri understands the downsides of tanking, a strategy he explicitly avoided in guiding Denver through the post–Carmelo Anthony world. "You play ball to win," Ujiri told Grantland. "It's difficult to teach winning by losing. There is value in winning. If it comes to a point where you feel like the team is not what you felt it was, then I think you can react. But I think the team will dictate where we go."
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 03:14 PM   #9 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Afflalo - I wouldn't mind him but:

#1 he's not a SF.
#2 - TR is like 6 years younger than him.
#3 this isn't a veteran playoff tested team to make moves like that
#4 Eats into the summer of 2015 possible spending/flexibility bonanza.
#5 Wouldn't be too opposed if Novak and LF were included in the deal.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 03:25 PM   #10 (permalink)
LX
with pink peppercorns

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,516
Representing:
Default

Was memphis a veteran playoff tested team before they got Tony Allen? If this team does well it's fool's gold and nothing should be done to make it better? It's much better to keep the young guys that are utterly untested while having not shown very much of anything? Why is there such a need to see masai work hard to sabotage success, and such a distaste for seeing a step by step approach to building a team worth following?
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 03:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
believin' in Masai.

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 601
Representing:
Default

Not really interested in this deal. I like this young, developing core we have going. And adding Afflolo doesn't even tip us into the next level, anyway.

Fields is the guy we desperately need to look about moving. There has not been enough discussion on that.
Owned is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 03:50 PM   #12 (permalink)
LOG
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
LOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 7,963
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owned View Post
Not really interested in this deal. I like this young, developing core we have going. And adding Afflolo doesn't even tip us into the next level, anyway.

Fields is the guy we desperately need to look about moving. There has not been enough discussion on that.
doubt there is a big market for Fields
LOG is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 03:57 PM   #13 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
Was memphis a veteran playoff tested team before they got Tony Allen? If this team does well it's fool's gold and nothing should be done to make it better? It's much better to keep the young guys that are utterly untested while having not shown very much of anything? Why is there such a need to see masai work hard to sabotage success, and such a distaste for seeing a step by step approach to building a team worth following?
Jeez dude just looking at some off the issues of bringing in Afflalo. If he could be brought in with LF, Novak going with TR out I'd be hard pressed to say no. LF and TR for Afflalo, harder to say yes. Not to mention him nor DD are SFs.

Last edited by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!!; 12-31-2013 at 08:11 PM.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 03:59 PM   #14 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owned View Post
Not really interested in this deal. I like this young, developing core we have going. And adding Afflolo doesn't even tip us into the next level, anyway.

Fields is the guy we desperately need to look about moving. There has not been enough discussion on that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOG View Post
doubt there is a big market for Fields
.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 04:00 PM   #15 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
Was memphis a veteran playoff tested team before they got Tony Allen? If this team does well it's fool's gold and nothing should be done to make it better? It's much better to keep the young guys that are utterly untested while having not shown very much of anything? Why is there such a need to see masai work hard to sabotage success, and such a distaste for seeing a step by step approach to building a team worth following?
Also - bad example using Tony Allen cuz they didn't trade a piece of their core for him, they brought him in in FA.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 04:05 PM   #16 (permalink)
chillin like a gremlin

Senior Member
 
bigmandinky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 749
Representing:
Default

Maybe we can flip Afflalo to a third team, for an asset that fits this team better?
bigmandinky is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 04:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 72,777
Representing:
Default

Am i getting this right, nobody would want Afflalo?


Whatever you guys are smoking, gimme.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 04:34 PM   #18 (permalink)
LOG
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
LOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 7,963
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Am i getting this right, nobody would want Afflalo?


Whatever you guys are smoking, gimme.
I would want Afflalo, but it all depends on the price. Would not sell the house to get him
LOG is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 04:55 PM   #19 (permalink)
If I ruled the world...

Sippin' On Myself
 
KoolAid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Yes
Posts: 3,600
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Am i getting this right, nobody would want Afflalo?


Whatever you guys are smoking, gimme.
I lke Afflalo, would not deal Ross for him.
KoolAid is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 05:01 PM   #20 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 72,777
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
I lke Afflalo, would not deal Ross for him.
TBH, i'd rather trade Derozan for him than Ross.


That being said, Ross hasn't convinced me of anything yet and he's no untouchable. And if he's not untouchable i doubt we could get anything near Afflalo's talent for him anyway.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24