Grantland: The Raptors make over - Page 2
Old 12-31-2013, 05:02 PM   #21 (permalink)
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A deal for Lowry makes very little sense for pretty much every team. Even NY figured that out. So what's so easy exactly? Masai says there's nothing easy available to him. And there's this -
That quote says nothing new. Masai is going with a wait and see approach, but at some point he will have to make a choice. If we finish January without dealing Lowry, then it's official he has chosen the treadmill.
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:04 PM   #22 (permalink)
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If we finish January without dealing Lowry, then it's official he has chosen the treadmill.



This fanbase.....
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:14 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Let's be honest, we're not bad enough to tank right now and were not good enough to make a deep playoff run. Masai promised that we would not be caught in the middle and that's exactly where we are. It's clear the only way we have a chance of tanking is a KL injury or trade and even then we may still NOT get a top 7 pick (guys there are a lot of bad teams out there). It is not so clear if somehow we keep this core (including KL) together for a few more years, that it may also just lead to us being a perpetual 7-10 seed in the east and who wants more of that. Maybe it's time like the Grantland article suggest we become buyers (with the right piece we are no worst than ATL or WASH) and be the 3rd or 4th seed this year and see what happens. The problem with that is that when the underachievers (BK,NY,CLE) find a way to get better and those who truly suck are developing their 2014 draft stud, how are we going to keep up?? how do we get better???. In this crappy situation I'm gonna have to roll with Herm Edwards.....why do you play the game??? "YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!!" (but not Affalo for Ross)
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:59 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I dont think Afflalo and DD's games would mesh well if we were to do that deal(nor having Lowry/DD/Afflalo as they all enjoy their time as the primary ball handler, too many cooks in the kitchen, and the cooks arent good enough as a whole). I like Afflalo as a player and he's improved a lot, but I wouldnt do that trade either unless there's more pieces involved.
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:00 PM   #25 (permalink)
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TBH, i'd rather trade Derozan for him than Ross.
Me too, as Afflalo is the type of player DD should aspire to be, a highly efficient 2 guard who can handle the ball at times, but is extremely aggressive and quick with his decisions when he does get the ball, and on the other end plays really good hard defence.
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:18 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Me too, as Afflalo is the type of player DD should aspire to be, a highly efficient 2 guard who can handle the ball at times, but is extremely aggressive and quick with his decisions when he does get the ball, and on the other end plays really good hard defence.
Lowry/Vasquez/Stone
Afflalo/Fields/Stone
Ross/Salmons/Novak
Amir/TH/Patterson
Joval/Hayes/Amir


That starting 5 is strong at both ends of the floor.....and that's without further moves to add to the bench.
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:30 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Let's be honest, we're not bad enough to tank right now and were not good enough to make a deep playoff run. Masai promised that we would not be caught in the middle and that's exactly where we are. It's clear the only way we have a chance of tanking is a KL injury or trade and even then we may still NOT get a top 7 pick (guys there are a lot of bad teams out there). It is not so clear if somehow we keep this core (including KL) together for a few more years, that it may also just lead to us being a perpetual 7-10 seed in the east and who wants more of that. Maybe it's time like the Grantland article suggest we become buyers (with the right piece we are no worst than ATL or WASH) and be the 3rd or 4th seed this year and see what happens. The problem with that is that when the underachievers (BK,NY,CLE) find a way to get better and those who truly suck are developing their 2014 draft stud, how are we going to keep up?? how do we get better???. In this crappy situation I'm gonna have to roll with Herm Edwards.....why do you play the game??? "YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!!" (but not Affalo for Ross)
Dude, other teams won't possibly get better in the next 1-3 years
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:23 PM   #28 (permalink)
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So now we're saying "no thanks" to Afflalo in favour of keeping Ross?

I know it's only a hypothetical but.... wow.
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:31 PM   #29 (permalink)
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So now we're saying "no thanks" to Afflalo in favour of keeping Ross?

I know it's only a hypothetical but.... wow.
lol


It's hilarious. Although i still say i'd rather trade DD for Afflalo than Ross. But yeah, pretty funny.
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:39 PM   #30 (permalink)
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That quote says nothing new. Masai is going with a wait and see approach, but at some point he will have to make a choice. If we finish January without dealing Lowry, then it's official he has chosen the treadmill.
Yep. No getting out of that mess. I mean he can trade Bargnani an Gay without taking back anything terrible back, but if we should make the playoffs and not win it all then we're just stuck with no chance to improve ever. You're one of the guys that talks about logic right?

I'm getting pretty tired of pointing out the obvious in that Masai always has multiple paths to decide upon. There is no magic button that takes him along one irrefutable course. His job is to constantly look at multiple options to improve his team. He will not have chosen anything definitive if he does not move Lowry within a timeframe you somehow find meaningful and important. Have you considered how difficult it might be to move Lowry right now? Yes, it might mean he is choosing to not move Lowry for shit that will only hamper him in doing his job. That is a pretty good choice to make. But please, just moan and groan about the treadmill. It is after all one of the three words you know how to employ as a pretend gm. Go crazy man. Make me feel the treads on that mill.
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:57 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Yep. No getting out of that mess. I mean he can trade Bargnani an Gay without taking back anything terrible back, but if we should make the playoffs and not win it all then we're just stuck with no chance to improve ever. You're one of the guys that talks about logic right?

I'm getting pretty tired of pointing out the obvious in that Masai always has multiple paths to decide upon. There is no magic button that takes him along one irrefutable course. His job is to constantly look at multiple options to improve his team. He will not have chosen anything definitive if he does not move Lowry within a timeframe you somehow find meaningful and important. Have you considered how difficult it might be to move Lowry right now? Yes, it might mean he is choosing to not move Lowry for shit that will only hamper him in doing his job. That is a pretty good choice to make. But please, just moan and groan about the treadmill. It is after all one of the three words you know how to employ as a pretend gm. Go crazy man. Make me feel the treads on that mill.
I guess you can't blame them LX.... 7 years of BC is enough to drive anyone insane.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:01 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Yep. No getting out of that mess. I mean he can trade Bargnani an Gay without taking back anything terrible back, but if we should make the playoffs and not win it all then we're just stuck with no chance to improve ever. You're one of the guys that talks about logic right?

I'm getting pretty tired of pointing out the obvious in that Masai always has multiple paths to decide upon. There is no magic button that takes him along one irrefutable course. His job is to constantly look at multiple options to improve his team. He will not have chosen anything definitive if he does not move Lowry within a timeframe you somehow find meaningful and important. Have you considered how difficult it might be to move Lowry right now? Yes, it might mean he is choosing to not move Lowry for shit that will only hamper him in doing his job. That is a pretty good choice to make. But please, just moan and groan about the treadmill. It is after all one of the three words you know how to employ as a pretend gm. Go crazy man. Make me feel the treads on that mill.
I thought it was clear that I meant he chose the treadmill for this year. I guess I shouldn't trust you to make basic inferences based on the structure of a sentence.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:02 PM   #33 (permalink)
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So now we're saying "no thanks" to Afflalo in favour of keeping Ross?

I know it's only a hypothetical but.... wow.
I don't think we should deal a younger, way more athletic player with higher potential in exchange for a guy at his peak in Afflalo. Especially when you factor in the fact we're not contending any time soon.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:11 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I thought it was clear that I meant he chose the treadmill for this year. I guess I shouldn't trust you to make basic inferences based on the structure of a sentence.
That doesn't change a lot. You still imply that some magical switch will have been flipped when that just won't be the case. And what the hell is the treadmill for this year supposed to mean? I suggest you read the article and try to absorb some of the meaning. When Ujuri says the team will dictate where we go, that kind of means something, and it's not that he has chosen anything like a treadmill, for this year or any period of time.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:44 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I don't think we should deal a younger, way more athletic player with higher potential in exchange for a guy at his peak in Afflalo. Especially when you factor in the fact we're not contending any time soon.
Afflalo is currently avging 22/4/4 on 48/49/85 shooting.

If you think that Ross has a higher ceiling than that then I'm not sure what to say.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:45 PM   #36 (permalink)
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That doesn't change a lot. You still imply that some magical switch will have been flipped when that just won't be the case. And what the hell is the treadmill for this year supposed to mean? I suggest you read the article and try to absorb some of the meaning. When Ujuri says the team will dictate where we go, that kind of means something, and it's not that he has chosen anything like a treadmill, for this year or any period of time.
I think you are reading the article very selectively, the author opinion is that we're clearly trying to tank, but the market is very soft for unloading assets. We may not be able to tank, despite wanting to. It also makes no optimistic predictions for our future, my clear impression is lowe feels that we should tank, but unfortunately we may not be able to and thus end up stuck in no man's land.

I still think there's plenty of time to make up ground because the other tanking teams are facing the same issues we do. Utah, Orlando and Boston are overachieving and rondo is around the corner ....
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:45 PM   #37 (permalink)
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That doesn't change a lot. You still imply that some magical switch will have been flipped when that just won't be the case. And what the hell is the treadmill for this year supposed to mean? I suggest you read the article and try to absorb some of the meaning. When Ujuri says the team will dictate where we go, that kind of means something, and it's not that he has chosen anything like a treadmill, for this year or any period of time.
Now you put words in my mouth. All I said was that if he goes past January without a Lowry deal it means he's not tanking this year. Nothing was said about a magical switch, just that that is his ultimatum and that's the latest he can make his choice. If he doesn't make a choice by then, the treadmill (which I use interchangeably with no man's land, if that helps your understanding) will be chosen for this season. Unless you seriously believe he can improve the team enough to be a contender, if we're not tanking by the end of January the team will go into no man's land for this year.

Masai does not have all his options at all times as you seem to think. If he chooses to tank in march and this team is at .500, guess what, its too late. There is such a thing as being too late.

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Old 12-31-2013, 08:55 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Afflalo is currently avging 22/4/4 on 48/49/85 shooting.

If you think that Ross has a higher ceiling than that then I'm not sure what to say.

Do you think he will sustain that play for longer than the rest of this season if even that long? Do you think he can score 22 pts if he's not being force-fed shots on a crappy Magic team? Even if you do, its irrelevant because even if you replace Ross on with Afflalo on this team we won't be contending any time soon, so we should keep the youth.

I think Ross could play a role similar to that which Afflalo should play, and he could play it better because of his superior athleticism.

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Old 12-31-2013, 10:35 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I think you are reading the article very selectively, the author opinion is that we're clearly trying to tank, but the market is very soft for unloading assets. We may not be able to tank, despite wanting to. It also makes no optimistic predictions for our future, my clear impression is lowe feels that we should tank, but unfortunately we may not be able to and thus end up stuck in no man's land.

I still think there's plenty of time to make up ground because the other tanking teams are facing the same issues we do. Utah, Orlando and Boston are overachieving and rondo is around the corner ....
Amazing. Do you still think MU wants to tank? I don't care what the reporters say. MU could have easily unloaded Lowry for a crappy return and make sure this team loses some games and tank, but he actually aiming for a playoff spot if you haven't noticed.
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:40 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Do you think he will sustain that play for longer than the rest of this season if even that long? Do you think he can score 22 pts if he's not being force-fed shots on a crappy Magic team? Even if you do, its irrelevant because even if you replace Ross on with Afflalo on this team we won't be contending any time soon, so we should keep the youth.

I think Ross could play a role similar to that which Afflalo should play, and he could play it better because of his superior athleticism.
"Force fed shots"? He's taking 15-16 per game.... not 25.

Athleticism has little to do with how good a player will be. If it was then guys like Harold Miner and Isiah Rider would have been superstars. You're reaching.
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