Grange: "Sign & Trade, get used to it."
Old 02-18-2009, 12:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Michael Grange
Talking to some Raptors people over the weekend in the wake of the trade and one expression we should all get used it in the next few months is sign-and-trade. If things don't work out with Marion? Sign-and-trade. If they can't come to a reasonable number with Delfino? Sign and trade. Longer term, if Bosh can't come to terms and he hasn't been traded next summer? Sign and trade, get used to it.
Source - Globeandmail.com: From Deep
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Old 02-18-2009, 02:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Does "sign and trade" have some kind of negative consequence that I'm not aware of, but should be terrified of?
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Old 02-18-2009, 03:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
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ummm Doc i kno u and 'trane are well versed in NBA contract lore... so sign and trade means that the team that receives said player can go over the cap right?
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Old 02-18-2009, 03:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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we would sign him and then trade him, so the cap applies to us in the signing. they would have to ship us players of similar dollar value for the deal to work under the cba, and they would also have to deal with the luxury tax if the trade pushed them over that threshold.
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Old 02-18-2009, 03:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Raps did it for McGrady and got 2nd pick in return... there was no cap then but it did enabled McGrady to get largest contract possible.
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Old 02-18-2009, 03:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I think the inside source may have wanted to base his statement in the context that we'll have significant leverage in any sign-n-trade scenario, which is always common place. If a player wants more/max money AND to ability to pick their next destination, it'll happen on our terms since it'll be entirely dependent on what we want in return.

BC will not accomodate Bosh or Marion or any player over the best-interests of the franchise. He won't sign-n-trade Bosh (and his fully maxed deal) to any team for equal salary crap in return.

If our players want to leave via a sign-n-trade, it'll be on our terms.
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Old 02-18-2009, 03:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
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If a team is over the cap, they aren't able to sign a player like Bosh or Marion because their contracts are too expensive (can't use Mid Level Exception, Veteran Exception, or anything like that). But what they can do is exchange assets with any other team, so long as the total salaries are within 125% of each other (roughly).

For the Raptors, it means they are best suited to stay over the cap, re-sign these assets (Bosh, for example, is no problem because his Bird rights permit going over the cap), and then exchange them with another team. That way you don't need to get under the cap to bring in new assets....you can simply exchange what you have.
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Old 02-18-2009, 03:19 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Ballswin (Realizar) View Post
I think the inside source may have wanted to base his statement in the context that we'll have significant leverage in any sign-n-trade scenario, which is always common place. If a player wants more/max money AND to ability to pick their next destination, it'll happen on our terms since it'll be entirely dependent on what we want in return.

BC will not accomodate Bosh or Marion or any player over the best-interests of the franchise. He won't sign-n-trade Bosh (and his fully maxed deal) to any team for equal salary crap in return.

If our players want to leave via a sign-n-trade, it'll be on our terms.
Oh, man I sure hope so... if BC agrees to any sign & trade just so these guys can get max contracts I'll personally kick his ass...
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Old 02-18-2009, 03:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Oh, man I sure hope so... if BC agrees to any sign & trade just so these guys can get max contracts I'll personally kick his ass...
Why?

Bosh will get a max contract regardless. So either we keep his talent, or we move him to another team where they are burdened by one player taking up a lot of salary, while we could either receive another max player in return, or acquire several pieces in exchange for him whose cumulative salaries equal a max contract.

Sign-and-trade is a good thing if a player doesn't want to be here.
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Old 02-18-2009, 03:31 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Why?

Bosh will get a max contract regardless. So either we keep his talent, or we move him to another team where they are burdened by one player taking up a lot of salary, while we could either receive another max player in return, or acquire several pieces in exchange for him whose cumulative salaries equal a max contract.

Sign-and-trade is a good thing if a player doesn't want to be here.
It's not good if team is taking bad contracts to fit into 25% rule... so, for instance if Raps ship Bosh they can get 1 decent cheap player and 1 huge contract that they have to carry for some time... this might prevent them to sign that cheap young player that in the future.

Sign & trade only works if Raps trade Bosh for Wade or something like that... doing sign & trade gets both players max contract but sends them to play they want to be.
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Old 02-18-2009, 03:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I don't know why you assume that we wouldn't get equal or similar value in return for Bosh. I presume that BC would be able to sign-and-trade Bosh for quality players, picks, or contracts, just based on the player he's trading; I guess you disagree?
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Old 02-18-2009, 03:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Why?

Bosh will get a max contract regardless. So either we keep his talent, or we move him to another team where they are burdened by one player taking up a lot of salary, while we could either receive another max player in return, or acquire several pieces in exchange for him whose cumulative salaries equal a max contract.

Sign-and-trade is a good thing if a player doesn't want to be here.
It is a good thing because we'll have all the leverage.

The only reason BC would do a sign-n-trade is IF we can get back good valuable pieces (not scrubs with big contracts just to make the salaries match).

The fact the Raps can offer Bosh more money than any other team is our leverage to re-sign him. If he wants the extra money he can get from us AND play for a particular team (ex. Miami), it'll only happen IF we can get valuable assets from Miami. If Miami can't offer us anything of good value equalling $17M+ in total salary, Bosh will just have to accept LESS money and leave on his own accord, which will be fine by me.

I'd rather lose Bosh for nothing than get back a combination of scrubs earning $17M next year and beyond.

Only if we can get back some quality pieces will a sign-n-trade be made.
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Old 02-18-2009, 03:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I don't know why you assume that we wouldn't get equal or similar value in return for Bosh. I presume that BC would be able to sign-and-trade Bosh for quality players, picks, or contracts, just based on the player he's trading; I guess you disagree?
Money is the key... Bosh getting max deal means that, either, Raps get max guy in return (which is highly unlikely or the guy is over the hill like JO) or getting cheaper guy or guys, draft picks plus a salary filler to satisfy 25% rule... so Raps end up spending max contract money and get cheap guys, maybe a draft pick & huge salary unusable guy... since team that your players is going is usually top team means that your draft pick is close to #30 and your cheap guy will ask for a new contract, maybe even max one soon.
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:46 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Didn't Orlando get Rashard Lewis in a sign and trade???
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:51 PM   #15 (permalink)
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no, that was a straight-up free agent signing.
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Old 02-18-2009, 07:49 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Rashard Lewis was a sign-and-trade. That's how the Magic were able to overpay him so badly. Off the top of my head, Curry to NY was a sign-and-trade, and Joe Johnson to ATL was a sign-and-trade as well.

That was a very different situation than Bosh, though.

Last edited by Ligeia; 02-18-2009 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 02-18-2009, 07:52 PM   #17 (permalink)
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How long do you have to trade the guy if its considered a "sign and trade"?
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Old 02-18-2009, 07:53 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Not sure. I'll see if I can find the answer.

I looked up the Johnson trade because I couldn't remember it.

To Atlanta:
Joe Johnson

To Phoenix:
Boris Diaw
2 1st Round Picks
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Old 02-18-2009, 08:04 PM   #19 (permalink)
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i stand corrected. lewis was a s&t. the other side of the deal was a conditional 2nd round pick. that's it.
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Old 02-18-2009, 08:23 PM   #20 (permalink)
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See I knew it
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