Grange: Revisiting Ford-for-Charlie V.
Old 04-10-2008, 03:50 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Grange: Revisiting Ford-for-Charlie V.

Good read from Grange's blog this afternoon. No this isn't really a comparision of Ford and CV but more with Bargnani and a "what could of been" scenario.

Watching CV must be frustrating if your a fan of his game because the kid clearly has the all the tools physically to make it big, but emotionally and mentally he's still immature. Frustrates me because we get stuck with Bargnani where you actually see the wheels spinning in his brain.

Anyhow, if there's one thing that I hope this franchise does better at, its drafting. Over these last number of years we have had to be one of the worst in the league. I don't know if its the scouting or what, but we need to make better decisions on talent for the future when it comes to drafts.

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Originally Posted by From Deep
2. It's kind of easy to second-guess the decision to trade Charlie V for T.J. now. Part of the logic, remember, was the Raptors had drafted Bargnani as their big man companion to Bosh and Villanueva was superfluous and thus good bait to get the point guard the team needed. It was a risky move but it's hard to get ahead in the NBA without taking some risks. Just looking at Villanueva last night you can see why he wasn't earning raves for his practice ethic. He makes the weight room look like the “wait, I'll go tomorrow” room. But is there anything that Bargnani does better at this stage of their respective careers? One member of the Bucks front office told me that they thought Charlie V. had a better feel for the game than Bosh, let alone Bargnani, and I can see why. The guy is really talented. He looks all old mannish one second and then blows by a bunch guys to the rim, or rises high for a dunk. He's one of those guys who rebounds merely by being on the floor; the ball comes to him because he can't help but adjust to shots and anticipate where they're going to end up – you can't teach this. His offensive arsenal could use some consistency, but it's pretty complete: he can drill threes; pull-up off the dribble; finish at the rim and post you up. And he's slick a passer. These are all the things the Raptors hope and expect Bargnani to do, but get it only in small doses, every other week. Admittedly the frustration with Charlie V. lies in the fact that he's got all those skills already – he probably had them in the ninth grade – but only pulls them all out when the mood strikes. If anything that's even more frustrating that watching Andrea slowly try to knit his game together. Now that Jose is Jose and Brandon Roy is Brandon Roy and Ford is suspect for several reasons, there's no way Colangelo makes that deal again. Jose and Roy in the backcourt; Charlie as a sixth man; Rasho and Bosh up front and more money to spend on additional depth would have the Raptors further ahead than they are today. I wouldn't have said that last season; and if Bargnani can get his stuff together, maybe I won't next year and the years after. But hoping for that to happen is a gamble too.

3. Is there one skill or attribute that he has that makes it a clear-cut case that Bargnani will be a better player than Charlie? Right now you would have to say no.

4. Ummm, check that. Bargnani is a better defender. He, at the very least, is proud enough to foul. Charlie is quite possibly the least engaged defensive player I've ever seen. Barganani blew by him a couple of times last night, and Charlie didn't move. And then Rasho did it to him in the post. The term ‘resistance is futile' could be his personal motto. He at least gets his team back on offense quickly.
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Old 04-10-2008, 04:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Hindsight is 20/20

why waste time talking about the past.
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Old 04-10-2008, 09:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Hindsight is 20/20

why waste time talking about the past.
Because you learn from it.
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Old 04-11-2008, 10:29 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Not really a waste SJ, just a change instead of discussing how big of douchebag everyone thinks Ford is.

Anyhow, as already mention I'm just hoping that moving forward that we do better when it comes to drafting, because since taking Bosh back in 2003 we've made piss poor decisions and haven't been all that lucky.
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Old 04-11-2008, 10:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Charlie V = Derek Coleman, so really it shouldn't even be open for debate.
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Old 04-11-2008, 10:42 AM   #6 (permalink)
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at the time the trade was made, it was 100% completely the right move for the team. and we saw the results last year too.

Even now, with hindsight i still think it was the right trade at the time.
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Old 04-11-2008, 11:06 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BballWatcher View Post
Because you learn from it.
Ok.

Einstein.

What do you learn by looking back at drafts and trades?

Hmm???

Please, tell me how looking back a gambles helps for the gambles that lay ahead.

No I'll wait.



You ain't got nuthin.

Cuz you roll the dice on this shit.
And it will always be the same.
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Old 04-11-2008, 01:00 PM   #8 (permalink)
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correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't CV lose his job to a rookie this season? The reason he's starting is only becayse Yi is injured ... If he has a better feel for the game than Chris, unfortunately that says more about CB4 than it does about villanueva ...
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Old 04-11-2008, 06:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I still like the trade, it helped us have that turnaround year and at the time made sense when we didn't know what we had in Calderon. That's the key, at the time. I can hardly hate decisions we make if at the time it was the right one, which this one and Bargnani was IMO.

Choosing Hoffa on the other hand... That's the pick that will haunt us forever.
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Old 04-11-2008, 09:29 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Let's put it this way, if we were to propose the same trade now to the Bucks, do you think they'd accept it? I think they will say yes in a split second. Or another way, do you think we can get a better player than Charlie V if we do trade TJ this summer? I think there's no question we could. So yes, I think it was a great trade at the time, and I still think is a good trade now. And that's not even counting TJ's injury, because without that, TJ would have a much much greater value right now.
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