Grange: Raptors missing the most basic of ingredients
Old 12-14-2009, 12:57 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Arrow Grange: Raptors missing the most basic of ingredients

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So is there any doubt now over the main ingredient missing from this team? And yes, there are plenty of ingredients they’re short on. But if there is one thing this team is generally absent of too often it’s competitive effort. How maddening is that? That was my takeaway from their win over the Rockets Sunday. When they actually, collectively compete and commit to running hard in transition and defending for the entire 24 seconds of the shot clock and gang rebounding and trying to be first to loose balls, they’re not a bad team. They’re certainly good enough to be better than 10-15.
LINK - Globe and Mail
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Old 12-14-2009, 01:04 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Well Michael they're actually 11-15, but whatever. I've said all along that the talent on this team is there to be a good team and decent on the defensive end (at least respectable) and it all comes down to the right coaching philosophy and effort.
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Old 12-14-2009, 01:06 PM   #3 (permalink)
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What? That makes no sense jeff.

How can the coach's philosophies and strategies work if the players aren't putting in the effort?
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Old 12-14-2009, 01:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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well, he did say coaching philosophy and effort
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Old 12-14-2009, 01:55 PM   #5 (permalink)
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bah.

they run good sets

its ALL on the players.

bust ass and you win in this league, coast, and you lose.
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Its all about being home. When you look at the blowouts or players mailing it in, its all on the road (Charlotte, Milwaukee, Atlanta). The players know if they don't give the effort on home court, the fans will boo them off the floor just like the Atlanta game. The only few wins against winning teams all come at home (Miami, Cleveland, Houston). The fans are the missing ingredients.
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
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What? That makes no sense jeff.

How can the coach's philosophies and strategies work if the players aren't putting in the effort?
Lol.... that's what I was going to say.

If the Raps put forth the type of effort EVERY game that they did against the Rox 45+ wins shouldn't be a problem.
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I don't completely buy the effort argument. When you have too many guys lost out there, and not accepting their role, or not understanding their role, effort can easily go to waste.

Either way - if the effort was missing before, why no need for any kind of change? Putting it all on the players doesn't do it for me. You have to have the players and coaches working together, and there has to be consequences when games are lost due to playing half-assed games. I mean even miniscule consequences. With Triano the only price that was ever paid thus far, has been paid out to buy new clipboards. Don't tell me that the team has shown no effort en mass. That has happened in one or maybe two games. There have been enough guys giving the effort, and then getting used as though the guys who refuse to bust their ass are going to be as important, or moreso.

This is not an 11-15 team. It's still hard to see how they could be much ahead of the .500 mark with the schedule they went through, but the difference has been mostly on Triano's head. And BC as well for that matter, since he encourages so much of a don't worry be happy atmosphere.
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:46 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Oh I have no problem laying some blame on Triano (and on BC).... but I don't see how you can watch the games and tell me that you've been satisfied with the effort that the guys have put forth on most nights.

All you have to do is look at Hedo fighting for rebounds last game to see some of the difference that I'm talking about. Against the Rox we had a bunch of guys out there who were hustling back on D, running the break AND charging into the paint. Even the "attitude" improved with Jack and Bosh running to DD's aid after Ariza'a attempted cheap shot.

Some of that was definitely due to coaching (the pre-game walkthrough was prob. a great idea) but some was DEF. due to these guys nutting up and deciding to play HARD.
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:53 PM   #10 (permalink)
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What? That makes no sense jeff.

How can the coach's philosophies and strategies work if the players aren't putting in the effort?
If the players buy into the philosophies they'll likely give effort. It seems to me, going by the players comments that they haven't bought into the philosophies and therefore look lost out there alot of the time.

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Old 12-14-2009, 03:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Isn't the blame on coaching getting old on this fucking forum?... Jesus... we win everyone shuts up for abit ... we lose a game its 90% on the coaching for some reason....

YES he is a Rookie head coach... to much fucking attention is given to a coach when a team wins, and when a team loses a game.

FUCK SAKES! ITS THE TEAM ON THE FLOOR... either you execute the called play perfectly of you FUCK UP (because of the other teams strategy or your own mistakes)

The team has to have the brains on the floor to recover a fuckup and make it work right and recover.

Last edited by Ex2k; 12-14-2009 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 12-14-2009, 04:02 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Isn't the blame on coaching getting old on this fucking forum?... Jesus... we win everyone shuts up for abit ... we lose a game its 90% on the coaching for some reason....
Win or lose on any given night, i think Triano is a horrible coach.
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Old 12-14-2009, 04:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Win or lose on any given night, i think Triano is a horrible coach.
So yesterday vs Houston Triano made terrible decisions? It was probably one of his best coached games, subs and plays wise id say.

Weems getting more time then Belli, but belli did see the floor, wright benched for thinking hes some fucking offensive Kobe Bryant in a raps uniform.

Putting in Pops for energy vs his old team which the raps definitley needed (and need all season, but we know guys usually bring a fucking lot more energy vs there former teams - see POPS in Rockets UNI vs RAPS)

Maybe Triano did make mistakes... But if Coaching is the main thing that wins games is Triano a better coach then Rick Adelman?

or was his TEAM just "Not hittin SHATSSS"?
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Old 12-14-2009, 05:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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This gave me something to blog about. There is effort that is there for everyone to see, and there is effort that can be counterproductive, and makes everything look like crap. This team has been too much all over the map to see something like effort being the thing that has been missing. I would argue that the team just hasn't put enough trust in the consistent effort that has been there all along, and hasn't had the balls to make changes necessary to allow for the individual efforts to compliment each other.

Shit - I just spent 1500 words saying that. Oh well - you kids need to read more!
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:00 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Isn't the blame on coaching getting old on this fucking forum?... Jesus... we win everyone shuts up for abit ... we lose a game its 90% on the coaching for some reason....

YES he is a Rookie head coach... to much fucking attention is given to a coach when a team wins, and when a team loses a game.

FUCK SAKES! ITS THE TEAM ON THE FLOOR... either you execute the called play perfectly of you FUCK UP (because of the other teams strategy or your own mistakes)

The team has to have the brains on the floor to recover a fuckup and make it work right and recover.

True the players need to execute, but if they don't and repeatedly don't, and the coach doesn't in some way enforce his will to change that behavior than like a bunch of kids in a schoolyard left to their own devices, all disipline is lost and chaos breaks out. Do you think Stan Van Gundy would have allowed this type of behavior and not have made one change to the starting lineup. Would he have accepted the status quo and tried to just sweep it under the rug? These players are street tough and you need to be the same as a coach or you ultimately lose control.
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Old 12-14-2009, 08:13 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ex2k View Post
Isn't the blame on coaching getting old on this fucking forum?... Jesus... we win everyone shuts up for abit ... we lose a game its 90% on the coaching for some reason....

YES he is a Rookie head coach... to much fucking attention is given to a coach when a team wins, and when a team loses a game.

FUCK SAKES! ITS THE TEAM ON THE FLOOR... either you execute the called play perfectly of you FUCK UP (because of the other teams strategy or your own mistakes)

The team has to have the brains on the floor to recover a fuckup and make it work right and recover.
BC must be an idiot for paying money for a coach whereas it is all players on the floor..
actually i cant understand why teams have a coach..its the team on the floor in everywhere all the time..
what is the function of coaches..i am so confused..

Last edited by acopur; 12-14-2009 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 12-15-2009, 02:35 PM   #17 (permalink)
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And BC as well for that matter, since he encourages so much of a don't worry be happy atmosphere.
really? Everything I learned about colangelo tells me he's a very strict person, almost the opposite of what you claim.

Of course, some people assume that anybody who doesn't yell all the time must be "soft", only assholes are persons who should be respected.

Van Gundy is a weakling for not punishing lewis for refusing to go back on the court against Phoenix - can only imagine what people would say if Triano would be in the same situation
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Old 12-15-2009, 03:32 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Van Gundy is a weakling for not punishing lewis for refusing to go back on the court against Phoenix - can only imagine what people would say if Triano would be in the same situation
What coach would you want:

Van Gundy- Where the best player (Dwight Howard) on the team tells the coach that he is too negative or pushing the team too hard when the team has one the best records in the NBA.

Triano-Where the team is four games below .500 and has posted one of the worst defenses in NBA history, and some players are calling out other players who are being not being accountable and complain why the coaching staff don't show game film to the players because they continue to make the same mistakes.

Don't compare both coaches, one coach has led his team to the NBA Finals and the other coach will be lucky if he still has a job by the end of the season.
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:21 PM   #19 (permalink)
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really? Everything I learned about colangelo tells me he's a very strict person, almost the opposite of what you claim.

Of course, some people assume that anybody who doesn't yell all the time must be "soft", only assholes are persons who should be respected.

Van Gundy is a weakling for not punishing lewis for refusing to go back on the court against Phoenix - can only imagine what people would say if Triano would be in the same situation
Everything you learned about Colangelo? Did that not include how much he preached about Triano's approach where the players can stay loose rather than to always be pressing due to anything less than positive reinforcement?

Triano does not have to be an asshole, but he desperately needs to stop worrying about being perceived as an asshole by this guy or that guy. It's his job to make some tough decisions, not be everybody's friend. This is something that Sam understood from day one, and the biggest reason I appreciated what he did as a coach, particularly because it didn't mean he couldn't be very fair and honest at the same time.
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