Grange: Raptors have decided to opt for a rebuild - Page 3
Old 12-05-2013, 01:59 PM   #41 (permalink)
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What the fuck is your problem? Are you seriously unable to respond to someone without being a douchebag? And you're a moderator? Seriously.

The potential? You don't remember him being likened to Vince Carter? You don't remember franchise player talk? You don't remember all-star discussion for the last three years? His defense is atrocious for such an alleged physical specimen that he's been hyped to be at times. Yeah, a fraction, cause right now he's just a very good scoring guard.

Peace out.
Bitter much? Get over whatever the hell it is you need to get over. We get you don't like DeMar. You unfairly pegged him as much less than a very good scoring guard every chance you got for years now - even times when you weren't presented with much of a chance to do so. Now that he's clearly more than a scoring guard you need to peg him as something of a huge disappointment anyways. Smells like trolling. And i do have a hard time responding to the most ridiculous forms of trolling with good manners. I know you don't see it that way, and that's a shame, because it means you are not likely to get past this thing you need to get past.
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Old 12-05-2013, 02:06 PM   #42 (permalink)
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i don't expect value or positive returns. all one would expect would that he be unloaded somewhere at pretty much whatever the cost. He may be a stupid player, but he's not a bad player. He has more skill and ability than many players in the league, but he just missuses them. the right coach and the right role might make him serviceable. That's what we have to bank on i guess.

Point being this team is going nowhere fast as they are currently constructed. Tearing it down and starting over makes sense especially with the talent waiting in this upcoming draft. Me... i can see everyone kicking themselves for not at the very least trying to land a high pick. You seem to paint a picture of gloom and negativity at the current state of things, but you are against the idea of a full on rebuild. What do you think is good way to go about this season and the short term future?
I'm not against a full on rebuild so much. I just hoped more of a build could have been possible, and now i just see no way to tear the team down properly. If Rudy could get moved for something that doesn't just make the hole deeper then i would be thrilled with any direction this team might take as long as it followed a well-thought out plan. At the moment they are looking at no ability to plan.
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Old 12-05-2013, 02:14 PM   #43 (permalink)
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fair enough LX. Well if we're talking about a plan hopefully the new GM has a better idea of what to do than the old one, eh? that shouldn't be too hard.
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Old 12-05-2013, 02:26 PM   #44 (permalink)
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What a horrible trade by Collangelo...Fucking Rudy Gay. Collangelo easily the worst GM in the history of the Toronto Raptors as far as I'm concerned, and I don't think very highly of Rob Babcock.
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Old 12-05-2013, 02:27 PM   #45 (permalink)
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I have faith in MU to make the right decisions. Look at what he built in denver. The man is a master in trades. He's also patient. he knows when to make the right deal. For now, all we can do is watch some of the positives of our team, i.e derozan, lowry, hopefully progression of val, and be patient just like MU is being. I have a feeling at the end of the season we'll all be very satisfied, one way or another.
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Old 12-05-2013, 02:29 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I like Ujiri - I have faith in him as well.
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Old 12-05-2013, 02:29 PM   #47 (permalink)
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What a horrible trade by Collangelo...Fucking Rudy Gay. Collangelo easily the worst GM in the history of the Toronto Raptors as far as I'm concerned, and I don't think very highly of Rob Babcock.
BC had good drafting skills (apart from the drummond debacle in which judgement is still yet to be confirmed). Babcock didn't, whatsoever.

BC: jose, ED for gay

babcock: vince Carter in his fucking prime, for practically nothing useful.


BC was terrible, but noone can be babcock terrible
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Old 12-05-2013, 02:44 PM   #48 (permalink)
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What a horrible trade by Collangelo...Fucking Rudy Gay. Collangelo easily the worst GM in the history of the Toronto Raptors as far as I'm concerned, and I don't think very highly of Rob Babcock.
BC had good drafting skills (apart from the drummond debacle in which judgement is still yet to be confirmed). Babcock didn't, whatsoever.

BC: jose, ED for gay

babcock: vince Carter in his fucking prime, for practically nothing useful.


BC was terrible, but noone can be babcock terrible
Babcock is worse by far, that dude was here for such a short time and did so much damage..
gave away vince for free... and don't forget about the Brazilian Beats Ara˙jo... oh yes and drafted Charlive V to play alongside Chris Bosh lol..

The only good thing he did was Calderon.. and Jose didn't come into his own until Babcock was gone

I don't think Babcock watched basketball

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Old 12-05-2013, 03:01 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Babcock is worse by far, that dude was here for such a short time and did so much damage..
gave away vince for free... and don't forget about the Brazilian Beats Ara˙jo... oh yes and drafted Charlive V to play alongside Chris Bosh lol..

The only good thing he did was Calderon.. and Jose didn't come into his own until Babcock was gone

I don't think Babcock watched basketball
Charlie V is about the closest comparison you can get to Andrea Bargnani. But I'm not sure Babs would of wasted a number #1 pick on Charlie V.

And regardless of the horrible moves made by Babcock, of which there is no doubt taht he did make some horrible moves, he was atleast aware of his role and the importance of giving coaches the freedom to coach.

And just like Ujiri right now has the task of turning the downward momentum generated by Collangelo, BC benefitted from the upward momentum generated by Embry before BC arrived. BC gets credit for a couple playoff appearances, but the groundwork was really established the year prior by Sam Mitchell, Bosh, and Calderon. That year on paper looks bad, but it was a fun year for Raptors basketball imo, full of hope and progress.

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Old 12-05-2013, 03:04 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Carp - you're post was wack and needed be called out. It's your same old song and dance. Stop crying.
fuck that... the condescending tones of this forum are wack. People need to grow the fuck up and stop being rude. Life isn't about being an ass on an internet forum.

All I said was he hasn't fully lived up to hype, and he hasn't. I gave him credit for being a very good scoring guard, a far cry from previous positions. If you want to hold me to previous statements, fine, I accept that, but the educated thing is to also allow for the ability for someone to change their view and not harp on previous tendencies if they are indeed trying not be so negative.

People talk all the time about Demar being a top 5 SG.... he's not. But I've suddenly given credit where it's deserved that he is looking like a 'very good scoring guard' and I think that's more than fair. He's like Evan Turner, except he doesn't rebound as much. Is Evan Turner a top 5 SG?

It's not the same old story, but you love to think it is. The sense of community is lacking with the anonymity here and it's just played out. I'm over it. Call me out all you want, the anger here is so lame.
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:13 PM   #51 (permalink)
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demar is the first player i would look to trade. Followed by Lowry.

Make this Rudy's team and make him earn his 19 million.

i could see there being some takers for rudy closer to the deadline.
Thats actually such a good idea.

Trade (sell high) and get good future value for Demar and Lowry.

Make Rudy earn his 19million, by giving him the keys to the team.

Its a win win

If he plays really well we can trade him

If he plays really horribly we are tanking regardless.
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:22 PM   #52 (permalink)
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fuck that... the condescending tones of this forum are wack. People need to grow the fuck up and stop being rude. Life isn't about being an ass on an internet forum.

All I said was he hasn't fully lived up to hype, and he hasn't. I gave him credit for being a very good scoring guard, a far cry from previous positions. If you want to hold me to previous statements, fine, I accept that, but the educated thing is to also allow for the ability for someone to change their view and not harp on previous tendencies if they are indeed trying not be so negative.

People talk all the time about Demar being a top 5 SG.... he's not. But I've suddenly given credit where it's deserved that he is looking like a 'very good scoring guard' and I think that's more than fair. He's like Evan Turner, except he doesn't rebound as much. Is Evan Turner a top 5 SG?

It's not the same old story, but you love to think it is. The sense of community is lacking with the anonymity here and it's just played out. I'm over it. Call me out all you want, the anger here is so lame.
noone has called demar a top 5 SG. but what you call him is a far cry from what we do call him, a top SG in the league. if we have to put a number to it, let's say top 10-15, maybe top 10 if he sustains this play.

you say he's not worth his contract, cause he can't defend, rebound, or do anything else. However, he's average career highs in assists isn't he? and that's in a system designed to make him the scorer, hell bent on iso after iso by a bonehead coach. He obviously can pass, and it's visible. but your blind hate for him makes you unable, or unwilling to admit, that you see it.

tell me, a sg average 20 ppg, who's a threat from 3, who's insanely durable, and commited to getting better (and has), isn't worth 9.5 mil a year? look around the league. it is. and that's with our discrepencies on his abilities elsewhere in the game, such as defending, and passing. . however you treat him like a little piece of shit, who's just taking up space.

The educated thing would be for you to once and for all, take off your biased binoculars, and watch DD without any preset judgements.
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:24 PM   #53 (permalink)
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fuck that... the condescending tones of this forum are wack. People need to grow the fuck up and stop being rude. Life isn't about being an ass on an internet forum.

All I said was he hasn't fully lived up to hype, and he hasn't. I gave him credit for being a very good scoring guard, a far cry from previous positions. If you want to hold me to previous statements, fine, I accept that, but the educated thing is to also allow for the ability for someone to change their view and not harp on previous tendencies if they are indeed trying not be so negative.

People talk all the time about Demar being a top 5 SG.... he's not. But I've suddenly given credit where it's deserved that he is looking like a 'very good scoring guard' and I think that's more than fair. He's like Evan Turner, except he doesn't rebound as much. Is Evan Turner a top 5 SG?

It's not the same old story, but you love to think it is. The sense of community is lacking with the anonymity here and it's just played out. I'm over it. Call me out all you want, the anger here is so lame.
You and I have gone through very similar situations, as you are aware of.

I too acknowledge that he's primarily a scorer. Before he could not shoot from 3 but now he can so yes - he is a very good scoring guard. The improvements, and hard work of his are great and all, but they have been exaggerated by some. Defensively he still leaves a lot to be desired, as most will acknowledge. Players like Ben Gordon also have put up similar #s in the past.
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:28 PM   #54 (permalink)
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noone has called demar a top 5 SG. but what you call him is a far cry from what we do call him, a top SG in the league. if we have to put a number to it, let's say top 10-15, maybe top 10 if he sustains this play.

you say he's not worth his contract, cause he can't defend, rebound, or do anything else. However, he's average career highs in assists isn't he? and that's in a system designed to make him the scorer, hell bent on iso after iso by a bonehead coach. He obviously can pass, and it's visible. but your blind hate for him makes you unable, or unwilling to admit, that you see it.

tell me, a sg average 20 ppg, who's a threat from 3, who's insanely durable, and commited to getting better (and has), isn't worth 9.5 mil a year? look around the league. it is. and that's with our discrepencies on his abilities elsewhere in the game, such as defending, and passing. . however you treat him like a little piece of shit, who's just taking up space.

The educated thing would be for you to once and for all, take off your biased binoculars, and watch DD without any preset judgements.
I actually have, and hence the very good scoring guard assessment. Now take yours off please.

And yes, many have called him a top five SG. Now acknowledge that I have increased my stance on him and move on. But he still lacks in a lot of areas. Trading him isn't a terrible option if we're rebuilding and I don't feel sorry for him that he is playing well on an underachieving squad. That's my stance, no blinders. Trade him now while he's hot. Clear the deck.... the main issue I have isn't with Demar as a person, it's with this team sucking and being capped out. Figure that out yet?
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:29 PM   #55 (permalink)
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noone has called demar a top 5 SG. but what you call him is a far cry from what we do call him, a top SG in the league. if we have to put a number to it, let's say top 10-15, maybe top 10 if he sustains this play.

you say he's not worth his contract, cause he can't defend, rebound, or do anything else. However, he's average career highs in assists isn't he? and that's in a system designed to make him the scorer, hell bent on iso after iso by a bonehead coach. He obviously can pass, and it's visible. but your blind hate for him makes you unable, or unwilling to admit, that you see it.

tell me, a sg average 20 ppg, who's a threat from 3, who's insanely durable, and commited to getting better (and has), isn't worth 9.5 mil a year? look around the league. it is. and that's with our discrepencies on his abilities elsewhere in the game, such as defending, and passing. . however you treat him like a little piece of shit, who's just taking up space.

The educated thing would be for you to once and for all, take off your biased binoculars, and watch DD without any preset judgements.
He may be a little harsh but DD is still primarily a scorer, and yes, he has improved in those regards - no one debates this. Yes, he's averaging a career high in assists but 2.8 is alright but it's not spectacular.
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:43 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Honestly Ujiri can't really be picky about "winning" trades right now when it comes to guys like Gay and Lowry. A straight salary dump (yes, without draft picks) would satisfy me, just as long as the filth of BC is washed away from this franchise.

Demar is alright, he can score and he plays hard, but he is hardly a transcendent player. He could be a good sixth man for a very good team, and even that role would be a tall order for him to be honest. He is expendable, and if it is the difference between a 1st rounder and a young piece, I'd pull the trigger any day of the week.

Hopefully this report is entirely accurate. Casey should be fired by the new year, unless he is willing to put his work into developing the young guys. Either way though, he's gone by the off season.
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:51 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Honestly Ujiri can't really be picky about "winning" trades right now when it comes to guys like Gay and Lowry. A straight salary dump (yes, without draft picks) would satisfy me, just as long as the filth of BC is washed away from this franchise.
Oh fuck that garbage. Besides, Lowry is not a salary dump, he's a 6mil expiring. And if MU could get 3 picks and a serviceable player for Bargnani at his awful value this summer i think he can find something for Gay. It always amazes me when people think none of our players can never fetch anything.
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:55 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Hopefully we dont get rid of DD, we dont need to do much to tank. Trade Lowry and Amir and this team is done. you will have DJ, buycks and stone as your pgs and Gray and Acy as your backup bigs
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Old 12-05-2013, 04:00 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Oh fuck that garbage. Besides, Lowry is not a salary dump, he's a 6mil expiring. And if MU could get 3 picks and a serviceable player for Bargnani at his awful value this summer i think he can find something for Gay. It always amazes me when people think none of our players can never fetch anything.
thanks. unbelievable what some people here want. Honestly, they don't want anything back. they WANT to be left with nothing for that glorified 25 percent change at the supposed next lebron. fucking stupid if you ask me.


also, note on demar. His defence isn't great yet, but it is, you could say, average. very rarely is he a liability on the floor. Before, he used to be. what does that say? Improvement.

People say defence comes with age and it's true. Now why exactly can't we envision a hardworker like demar who's proven to have the capability to improve tremendously to improve on the defensive end? He certainly has the tool. That's the difference between demar and say ben gordon. gordon had the tools to be a slick offensive player, and he was, at one point. but he didn't have the tools to dominate whether through size, or pace. he only had pace and agility. demar has, physically, the preverbial all. now the difference between demar and a guy like bargnani? demar has the work ethic to be able to use his tools and he's shown it. let's be a little patient can't we? He hasn't disappointed so far.
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Old 12-05-2013, 04:06 PM   #60 (permalink)
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fuck that... the condescending tones of this forum are wack. People need to grow the fuck up and stop being rude. Life isn't about being an ass on an internet forum.

All I said was he hasn't fully lived up to hype, and he hasn't. I gave him credit for being a very good scoring guard, a far cry from previous positions. If you want to hold me to previous statements, fine, I accept that, but the educated thing is to also allow for the ability for someone to change their view and not harp on previous tendencies if they are indeed trying not be so negative.

People talk all the time about Demar being a top 5 SG.... he's not. But I've suddenly given credit where it's deserved that he is looking like a 'very good scoring guard' and I think that's more than fair. He's like Evan Turner, except he doesn't rebound as much. Is Evan Turner a top 5 SG?

It's not the same old story, but you love to think it is. The sense of community is lacking with the anonymity here and it's just played out. I'm over it. Call me out all you want, the anger here is so lame.
Play the victim carp...giving credit where credit is due....you can't even let fans on here "feel bad for Demar" without telling them why they shouldn't. "Just beginning to show a fraction of his potential". You probably meant like a 9/10 type of fraction since you're giving him so much credit. In no way would that comment be a disguised insult like 100% of your exaggerated nonsense posts... "years of being spoonfed minutes and opportunity". Yeah he's doesn't work hard at all - he didn't earn anything.

Your act is stale - how should people respond to it. You in no way invite a sensible conversation regardin Derozan, because you only bring him up in a exaggerated, negative manner, and more often then not in a thread that has little to do with him.

Last edited by bjjs; 12-05-2013 at 04:13 PM.
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