Grange: Raptors better off with Turkoglu
Old 07-06-2009, 12:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Grange: Raptors better off with Turkoglu



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So a couple of quick observations in the absence of any (new) news.

1. I like the Turkoglu move for the same reason I liked the thrust to sign Marion and Kleiza etc. The Raptors have long made the call they're not in a rebuilding frame of mind, So if you're not rebuilding you might as well be decent, win some games, have a chance at some playoff gates and maybe get lucky. Not sure if it gets you a championship -- in fact, no it doesn't -- but it does make the winter more interesting. And the more I think about it, the Raptors have a chance to be better with Turkoglu than with Marion and the added depth the Raptors would have with him in the lineup. Havng two legit playmakers on the floor -- Calderon is the other -- will make the most of Bosh and Bargnani, plain and simple. Even with Marion, Kleiza and Delfino, the Raptors would still be a team full of finishers. Now they have two really good playmakers and I think everyone on the roster will benefit.

2. I also buy the 'not for the money' argument. At five years and $53-million, Turkoglu came to Toronto for an extra $600,000 a year. On a $10-million base, that's like a guy making $100,000 taking a different job in a different city for $106,000. I think it's reasonable to believe a guy would take lifestyle over a six-per-cent pay bump, especially when taxes probably make the difference effectively zero.

3. By the same token I do have some concerns that a guy left an NBA finalist and balked at signing with an up-and-coming Finals contender (Brandon Roy and Hedo running pick-and-roll? That would be very, very tough) for a team that will be touch-and-go to win 45 games. Is that a guy who will grind it out to provide full value at 33, 34 and 35 years old? Too early to judge that.

4. Depth is depth. By definition it's the easiest commodity to get. The NBA is so full of good players that the key is having really good players to bring out their best qualities. If Turkoglu, Calderon, Bosh and Bargnani are at their best, it should't be too hard to find two or three affordable guys for the second unit, but we'll see.
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Old 07-06-2009, 01:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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it will help out Calderon and we don't really need a good back up pg as turkoglu is a play maker.


but, i'm just not liking the defensive aspect of it.
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Old 07-06-2009, 01:11 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Defense is not only about individual performance but also about buying into a team scheme.

Rip Hamilton is a very solid defender but without the team systems in place, he wouldnt be able to stop alot of the leagues sg's because he is simply outsized.

With a proper system, Hedo will be an above average defender, alot still falls on him to put forth the effort, but I am sure he can do it.
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Old 07-06-2009, 01:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Our main thing we need to cut down on next season on defence is 2nd-3rd chance points and with the size up front of Bargs/Bosh/Hedo/Evans that shouldn't be a problem. We got absolutely killed in 2nd chance points given up last season.
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Old 07-06-2009, 01:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooch View Post
Defense is not only about individual performance but also about buying into a team scheme.

Rip Hamilton is a very solid defender but without the team systems in place, he wouldnt be able to stop alot of the leagues sg's because he is simply outsized.

With a proper system, Hedo will be an above average defender, alot still falls on him to put forth the effort, but I am sure he can do it.
So basicaly its all up to Jay to solve all our worries now that he has the summer to create some game plans and mold this team to his and trianos "vision"
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Old 07-06-2009, 01:38 PM   #6 (permalink)
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So basicaly its all up to Jay to solve all our worries now that he has the summer to create some game plans and mold this team to his and trianos "vision"


We're fucked!
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Old 07-06-2009, 01:43 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Jay won't handle the defense. It'll be all up to Iavaroni
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Old 07-06-2009, 01:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Jay won't handle the defense. It'll be all up to Iavaroni
Then we're probably stll fucked... just not as much.
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Old 07-06-2009, 02:00 PM   #9 (permalink)
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If we're getting killed on the boards, substitute the worst rebounding centre (Bargnani) with Reggie Evans.

If defense is a worry, I hope we get Dahntay Jones. Stick him on the opponent's best wing player. He also an guard point guards, just ask Chris Paul. He did a great job against Chris Paul in the playoffs. If Jose is getting constantly burnt again this year, take out Jose and stick Jones on defense against the opponent's point guard, and let Turk run the offense.
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Old 07-06-2009, 02:16 PM   #10 (permalink)
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you should probably get your numbers checked - Bargnani is not even close to being the worst rebounding C. He ranks 22 out of 33, and that's taking the whole year stats. As a starting C he was much better.
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Old 07-06-2009, 02:30 PM   #11 (permalink)
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i'm gonna turn the other cheek again and say this is good for the raps. everyone is concentrating on how we can't resign marion, delfino and parker and pops and for those few joey graham.


but, maybe we don't need those guys and we need turk because bryan as we know really sees something in derozan and when he made that trade for evans way back when he's had it all planned out the whole summer and pl;ayed us like fools. this has been his plan all along. step 1: get someone who can replace marion in evans(he chases the ball, grabs rebounds and plays defense.

step 2:get a rookie with a lot of potential that can dunk, shoot free throws good(all in good time my friends), get players on opposing teams in foul trouble. he'll add points, defense, and free throw chances for our team)

step 3: get a player who can relieve pressure off Calderon and spread the floor more for Bosh to do his thing.(Hedo Turkoglu)

step 4: do whatever the hell possible to get some more depth


When he figured there is a good chance that Hedo like what we've seen in the past won't sign with the raps.

HE wen't with plan b: which also involved the first two steps of plan a

Step 3:resign marion and delfino and pick up kleiza, barnes, etc.

But, plan a is seeming to work and now i'm thinking that this plan a was a very good plan and it'll work. as long as derozan isn't a flunk which he won't be.

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Old 07-06-2009, 02:31 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
you should probably get your numbers checked - Bargnani is not even close to being the worst rebounding C. He ranks 22 out of 33, and that's taking the whole year stats. As a starting C he was much better.
Yes, when the bottom 11 centers is averaging 13.8 minutes to 24 mintues per game. The worst rebounding center (Bargnani) is averaging 31.4 minutes per game and grabbing only 5.3 rebounds per game. If you're averaging it over 48 minutes, he has the seond worst average next to Darius Songaila.

NBA Statistics and League Leaders - National Basketball Association - ESPN

Songaila is not even a center, he is a power forward. Last year, Washington two centers were Haywood and Mcgee. So yes, Bargnani is the worst rebounding center!!!!!!
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Old 07-06-2009, 02:34 PM   #13 (permalink)
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bargnani was considered a pf at a point.
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Old 07-06-2009, 02:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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He is still considered a PF.

He doesn't have enough tools in his skillset for him to play C.
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Old 07-06-2009, 03:51 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Yes, when the bottom 11 centers is averaging 13.8 minutes to 24 mintues per game. The worst rebounding center (Bargnani) is averaging 31.4 minutes per game and grabbing only 5.3 rebounds per game. If you're averaging it over 48 minutes, he has the seond worst average next to Darius Songaila.

NBA Statistics and League Leaders - National Basketball Association - ESPN

Songaila is not even a center, he is a power forward. Last year, Washington two centers were Haywood and Mcgee. So yes, Bargnani is the worst rebounding center!!!!!!
You have to look at his numbers as a starter. As a starter, he averaged 7 rebounds per game, and this is with one of the best rebounding PFs in the league and one of the best rebounding SFs in the league by his side. In fact, in the majority of the games in which Bargnani started, the Raptors outrebounded their opponents.

This isn't to say that he doesn't have room for improvement in this department. He certainly does and it's something that he will address over the summer.

I don't think rebounding will be a problem for Bargnani or the Raptors next season.
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Old 07-06-2009, 04:07 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Yeah, Bargnani will surprise us with his rebounding numbers.

It's not as much about his skill set as much as it is his determination.

He's big, he's not thin and lanky like Dirk. He can bang around...
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Old 07-06-2009, 04:42 PM   #17 (permalink)
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In fact, in the majority of the games in which Bargnani started, the Raptors outrebounded their opponents.


I don't think rebounding will be a problem for Bargnani or the Raptors next season.
The only time the Raptors outrebounded their opponents is when Shawn Marion stepped in, not because Bargnani was factor on the boards. He gets rebounds because he was in the right position. When the ball is 50-50, and boxing out, pushing, and fight for the rebound is required, Bargnani is not going to get it:



"Largely mediocre on this end of the floor. One of the worst defensive rebounding big men in the NBA."

DraftExpress: NBA Scouting Reports, Atlantic Division (Part Three)





"He's a horrid defensive player and provides almost nothing on the boards"

Bargnani, Andrea Stats, News, Photos - Toronto Raptors - ESPN




Rebounding will be a big problem. You have replaced Shawn Marion with Hedo. Your front court is Bosh-Bargnani-Hedo. All finesse players. Remeber all the rebounding problems before the JO trade, its going to happen again.
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Old 07-06-2009, 04:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Bargnani will average 7-8RPG next season- Book it!
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Old 07-06-2009, 04:55 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Bargnani will average 7-8RPG next season- Book it!
Too bad the guy he's guarding will average 10-11RPG next season-Book it!
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Old 07-06-2009, 05:03 PM   #20 (permalink)
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No question Hedo is going to create an instant impact for this team and they should be a legit playoff team with a chance to enter the second round. My whole problem with the move is what happens in three years when we start to seeing him break down and his contract has escalated well past $10M? That fourth year might be tough to swallow. The fifth year he turns into trade bait.
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