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-   -   Grange: Marbury deal > Marion deal (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/grange-marbury-deal-marion-deal-5842.html)

The MVP of West Hollywood 01-19-2009 06:10 PM

Grange: Marbury deal > Marion deal
 
Quote:

6. So what do I think about the idea of O'Neal for Marion and Banks? If that's all that's on the table, go for it. The sooner you can open up space under the salary cap for next summer, the better. But I would still prefer it if they made a deal for Stephon Marbury, if it was out there. My sense is that Marion is not necessarily someone the Raptors are looking at long-term, so the cost of getting him for 35 games or so is Marcus Banks, who - as I was asking around about him with Suns people yesterday - got a pretty universal thumbs down. So in order to get Marion for half a season the Raptors you've got Banks on the books for 2009-10 and 2010-11 at about $4.6-million a year. If that's what's there, so be it. But if there's a chance to do O'Neal for Marbury straight up (and waive Marbury) that's what I would do. But that's me. It's not like this team can't make the playoffs, but it's getting harder by the game. My personal bias is toward making any move that gets the Raptors as far under the cap as they can get as soon as possible. And if you're going to miss the playoffs as consequence, there's no shame in missing them by as much as possible.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...Bwbbasketball/

I agree for once

a) No Banks contract/more room for nice FA

b) Full tank

Dunno if the Knicks would want it though

gdaytday 01-19-2009 06:13 PM

My thoughts are that the Marion for JO deal would be done already but BC is refusing to take Banks and his shit deal.

The MVP of West Hollywood 01-19-2009 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdaytday (Post 123697)
My thoughts are that the Marion for JO deal would be done already but BC is refusing to take Banks and his shit deal.

Actually the league office is closed on MLK day

Gurk 01-19-2009 06:18 PM

Does Marbury's contract end this year and how much is it???

youngLion 01-19-2009 06:19 PM

I know I'm in the minority here but I'm not so opposed to the Raptors taking on Banks. He's never had a real shot in this league except in Minne where he put up decent numbers. Moreover he has a rep as being a great athlete and a very good defender, something the Raps could certainly use at the point.

N64 01-19-2009 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The MVP of West Hollywood (Post 123700)
Actually the league office is closed on MLK day

yup...it'll be announced tomorrow...book it


...................................i hope :sigh:

m5racer 01-19-2009 06:28 PM

i like, but we need any player we get off the books this season.

jeffb 01-19-2009 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurk (Post 123707)
Does Marbury's contract end this year and how much is it???

Ends this season. 20.8 Million

Barracuda 01-19-2009 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The MVP of West Hollywood (Post 123695)
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...Bwbbasketball/

I agree for once

a) No Banks contract/more room for nice FA

b) Full tank

Dunno if the Knicks would want it though

Finally, Grange is talking my language.

Ugo Ferst 01-19-2009 06:33 PM

Ive said it before, i'll say it again, MLSE is about the $, not longterm winning, they will want a playoff push now for playoff revenues. Only if it is completely hopeless (and the way the east is, that will be awhile) would MLSE consider giving up on the season.

Toebee 01-19-2009 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugo Ferst (Post 123731)
Ive said it before, i'll say it again, MLSE is about the $, not longterm winning, they will want a playoff push now for playoff revenues. Only if it is completely hopeless (and the way the east is, that will be awhile) would MLSE consider giving up on the season.

So true! Teachers Pension money can't be played with!

Gurk 01-19-2009 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 123726)
Ends this season. 20.8 Million

Well if we want to build for next year, I think this trade would be better and maybe the Knicks will add a good 700k contract

moremilk 01-19-2009 10:21 PM

I actually agree - when I first heard the idea, I thought it's crazy, but if would have to take a bad contract to unload JO, I'd rather get Marbury, especially if they sweaten the deal a little.

moremilk 01-19-2009 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugo Ferst (Post 123731)
Ive said it before, i'll say it again, MLSE is about the $, not longterm winning, they will want a playoff push now for playoff revenues. Only if it is completely hopeless (and the way the east is, that will be awhile) would MLSE consider giving up on the season.

all franchises are like that. But MLSE is not stupid, they know that losing Bosh would be a financial disaster, so they would realize that it's more economical to spend now.

insight_tor 01-19-2009 10:35 PM

I proposed this trade before Grange did and you guys told me I am nuts :).
This trade is about cap space but we have to convince NY to take JO as trading bait for next year. NY has better chance to attract a big name, although I will laugh for one year if they come out empty handed (no first class FA CB4/LBJ/Wade/Stoudemire):yeah:

spuriousjones 01-19-2009 10:39 PM

this is the same thing i've been saying. if the plan is to retain marion (at a lesser price) then banks', less development for joey, and a worse draft pick is a tolerable price for that. if not, its not a good trade.

i'm going to repeat myself, but i want bc to swing something like JO+Moon+$$$+that Clipps pick for Marbury+Gallinari. We get much more savings, assuming Marbury isn't ging to play, we're not artificially skewing our draft, if Marbury does play, at least he's a guard that can create--Marion's a good player, but we already have athletic 3s that need others to get them shots. And Gallinari is a type of guy I think this team would really benefit from. The kid's got a chance to be special, but I don't know what kind of roadblocks he's going to face in NY with Chandler and Lee (although Lee could walk this summer).

However, the Knicks might not want to spend $60MM on JO 1.5 years at about $20MM per x 2 to include the tax. (When I write it out and see the figures, it sounds even more preposterous). But there's that crazy idea that they would get ticker tape parades for making the playoffs.

a crazy twist on that one is JO+Kapono for Marbury+Curry+Gallinari. With this we immediately drop $20MM off the books this summer, no longer carry kapono. And would end up with fat Curry for two years at about $10+$11MM (his options, which its nearly certain he'd take). Plus we'd get a promising lottery pick in Gallinari.

Yes Curry sounds like a nightmare but he only cost like 3-4MM more than Kapono, that's less than what Banks would cost. And if he can be rehabilitated, he's movable, if not serviceable--could turn out to be a steal. It wasn't that long ago that he was playing well. We'd still save more than if we paid JO this year and next. They're so desperate to get rid of Curry and Jefferies too (actually, I'd prefer Jefferies but I went with the worse scenario to show that even that is no totally awful) that they may also throw more deal greasers. for example: the Knicks can't trade their pick because they owe 2010's to Utah but they can swap, therefor, if Toronto can say buy one of Denver's multiple picks or another late pick, that may be able to be turned into the mid-teen Knick pick. Curry and Jefferies also expire in the pretty good FA year of 2011.

whatever...I think I'm losing it.

insight_tor 01-19-2009 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spuriousjones (Post 123904)
this is the same thing i've been saying. if the plan is to retain marion (at a lesser price) then banks', less development for joey, and a worse draft pick is a tolerable price for that. if not, its not a good trade.

i'm going to repeat myself, but i want bc to swing something like JO+Moon+$$$+that Clipps pick for Marbury+Gallinari. We get much more savings, assuming Marbury isn't ging to play, we're not artificially skewing our draft, if Marbury does play, at least he's a guard that can create--Marion's a good player, but we already have athletic 3s that need others to get them shots. And Gallinari is a type of guy I think this team would really benefit from. The kid's got a chance to be special, but I don't know what kind of roadblocks he's going to face in NY with Chandler and Lee (although Lee could walk this summer).

However, the Knicks might not want to spend $60MM on JO 1.5 years at about $20MM per x 2 to include the tax. (When I write it out and see the figures, it sounds even more preposterous). But there's that crazy idea that they would get ticker tape parades for making the playoffs.

a crazy twist on that one is JO+Kapono for Marbury+Curry+Gallinari. With this we immediately drop $20MM off the books this summer, no longer carry kapono. And would end up with fat Curry for two years at about $10+$11MM (his options, which its nearly certain he'd take). Plus we'd get a promising lottery pick in Gallinari.

Yes Curry sounds like a nightmare but he only cost like 3-4MM more than Kapono, that's less than what Banks would cost. And if he can be rehabilitated, he's movable, if not serviceable--could turn out to be a steal. It wasn't that long ago that he was playing well. We'd still save more than if we paid JO this year and next. They're so desperate to get rid of Curry and Jefferies too (actually, I'd prefer Jefferies but I went with the worse scenario to show that even that is no totally awful) that they may also throw more deal greasers. for example: the Knicks can't trade their pick because they owe 2010's to Utah but they can swap, therefor, if Toronto can say buy one of Denver's multiple picks or another late pick, that may be able to be turned into the mid-teen Knick pick. Curry and Jefferies also expire in the pretty good FA year of 2011.

whatever...I think I'm losing it.

Why would NY go any further than JO for Marbury? Even this trade is a question mark as Marbury comes off books in few months not next year.

Gallinari is their top draft pick, to deal him for an bet would mean pretty much NY's GM and D'Antoni admittance they screwed up in the last draft.

moremilk 01-20-2009 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insight_tor (Post 123902)
I proposed this trade before Grange did and you guys told me I am nuts :).
This trade is about cap space but we have to convince NY to take JO as trading bait for next year. NY has better chance to attract a big name, although I will laugh for one year if they come out empty handed (no first class FA CB4/LBJ/Wade/Stoudemire):yeah:

Frankly, I thought JO would have a lot more value than an expiring contract. Maybe I'm completely off, but I really believe that the JO we've seen in December is not even close to the real JO, and he was pretty good then.

henrymakepeace 01-20-2009 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngLion (Post 123710)
I know I'm in the minority here but I'm not so opposed to the Raptors taking on Banks. He's never had a real shot in this league except in Minne where he put up decent numbers. Moreover he has a rep as being a great athlete and a very good defender, something the Raps could certainly use at the point.

You've got to be kidding me! He was given a huuuge chance to play as a backup to the mvp-then Nash in a team that gives everything to a PG. He is so shit that he could not even manage to stay as the backup PG even though there was no alternative to him. Great defender? Lol, now that's double hillarious. :haha:

thomas1 01-20-2009 10:52 PM

Initially I thought what the hell is Grange thinking but on second thought I agree with him. Our only hope to keep Bosh beyond 2010 is to be very competitive next year (i.e. a second round play off team or better).

For that to happen we need to upgrade at multiple positions starting as well as back up. We will need starting 3 and a starting 2. Assuming we keep Parker as backup 2 I still prefer we get a backup three that has more energy and hustle than Kapono. Moon is a situational player should not even be on the rotation.

We will need cash to upgrade, If Andrea, Jose and Bosh are off limits the next best trad able asset is Parker but he won't get you much. BC has to ensure that by Nov. 1st 2009 he has a squad that has no holes in it and can compete with the likes of Orlando and Cleveland, teams that have at least a couple of scorers at different positions and have pretty much a starting quality player at each position (only caveat here is Ben Wallace).

I would take the Marbury trade get the cash at the end of the season and start over hauling the team. Why take on a bad contract for Banks when we can get Marion through offer sheet free from any baggage??


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