Grange: The Future of Colangelo
Old 12-14-2012, 08:00 AM   #1 (permalink)
contemplating

The Killing Joke

 
Claudius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burkina Faso, Disputed Zone
Posts: 10,025
Representing:
Send a message via MSN to Claudius
Default Grange: The Future of Colangelo



Quote:
Colangelo is approaching his seventh anniversary running the Toronto Raptors. His contract is up at the end of this year, though the franchise can exercise an option to bring him back.

This year is shaping up to be the worst of his tenure, which is saying something given Toronto is four years removed from the playoffs. In recent interviews Colangelo's questioned the team's focus and attention to detail, not so subtly shifting the spotlight to head coach Dwane Casey, the third head coach of Colangelo's tenure and the guy he just inked to an extension. But Colangelo is taking most of the heat and rightfully so.

Twitter gives voice to some of his critics, the Raptors 4-19 record -- second-worst in the NBA -- is all the amplification required. His handcrafted club has lost 12 of their last 13 games and 10 straight on the road after losing at home against the Brooklyn Nets Wednesday night.

Colangelo's is a rebuilding project that is giving every appearance of coming unglued. The down side of being a hands-on; detail-oriented manager (Colangelo touches everything from where the team stays on the road to what shade of red the home floor gets trimmed out in) is that there is no one to point to finger at when it all falls apart.

What the Raptors are is what Colangelo has wrought.

But does removing the architect fix the building? And if not does the club and its fan base have the appetite to undertake another renovation if someone new wants to sweep away the past and start fresh?

First things first: while the record speaks volumes, it shouldn't obscure the fact that Colangelo has made moves that can't be completely written off; they're sum is ugly but there are some interesting parts.

- Was Jonas Valancuinas a bad pick at No. 5 in the 2011 draft? Quite the opposite; the Lithuanian rookie may not be a future MVP candidate, but he seems as advertised: a high-energy, high-character big man who should deliver double-figure points and rebound totals for a decade.

- Was Ed Davis a bad pick at No. 13 in 2010? No. In fact Davis is giving the appearance of being a fantastic pick, especially for a big man taken that far down the draft. The third-year power-forward is averaging 14.5 points and 12.5 rebounds a game on 53.6 per cent shooting on a per 36 minute basis.

- Was DeMar DeRozan a bad pick at No. 9 in 2009? No. You can blame Colangelo for not steering a bad team into a better draft position at the end of a lost season and perhaps grabbing budding all-star Stephen Curry at No. 7 as Golden State did; but DeRozan has provided a reasonable return. Enough to justify extending him for four years for $38 million? Time will tell if that deal is Colangelo reaching or if it's locking up an improving player in a tight market, but again it's not a move that gets guys fired.

- Was adding Kyle Lowry for a lottery-protected first-round pick a mistake? Obviously the cost of this deal increases significantly if the Raptors keep losing. The pick will stay with Toronto if they end up picking in the top-three; but it will be a tough pill to swallow if the Raptors end up in position to pick fourth or fifth and watch the Oklahoma City Thunder (who got the pick from Houston in the James Harden trade) get another good young player and the Raptors end up with nothing. The Raptors slide has created a potentially worst-case scenario but at the time it seemed a reasonable risk to land Lowry, a 26-year-old earning $6 million over the next two seasons whose high energy, defensive-minded, hyper-competitive nature was widely viewed as a necessary ingredient for the Raptors to contend for the playoffs. Complicating matters is that Lowry has performed well statistically but has been banged up regularly -- the latest is his triceps injury from Monday night might keep him out two weeks -- as well. Still it's hardly the kind of desperate trade that GM's get hanged for.

The Raptors roster has blemishes. Landry Fields and Linas Kleiza represent too generous Colangelo contracts, arguably. And then there's Andrea Bargnani, the first-overall pick whose biggest failure is that he has never lived up to his talent and biggest attribute is that at $10 million a season for a big man who has played long stretches at an all-star level, he doesn't have a bad contract.

But for its blemishes the current Raptors roster isn't a great advertisement for those who would have Colangelo hang.

The reality is that the best argument for letting Colangelo walk, or sending him running, isn't what's happened in Toronto this season but mistakes of the past that echo still: His unwillingness to head into a rapid rebuild as soon as it became evident that Chris Bosh wasn't likely to commit to a long-term deal. That way thinking brought the Raptors Jermaine O'Neal; Shawn Marion, Hedo Turkoglu and ultimately saw Bosh leave and the Raptors get little more than air and some salary cap space.

And so the issue is what the Raptors can do to get out this mess as the playoffs seem a distant goal for a fifth straight year.

Colangelo put them in it. The simplest way to get out of it might be cashing in the franchise's chips, gargle on the tailpipe of two more lost seasons and hope to come up with the No. 1 pick in 2014 when Toronto's Andrew Wiggins -- hailed by some as the best basketball prospect since LeBron James -- is ready to save his hometown franchise. Such is the NBA way of doing business that tanking is a legitimate and perhaps even necessary path to contending.

If that's the strategy then Colangelo might as well leave now as it will take more than three years for that lottery ticket to pay off and there's the added factor that in one of the next five drafts the Raptors will have to forfeit a lottery to the Thunder.

That alone almost makes pushing forward imperative. And if the plan is to somehow keep accumulating assets that could see Toronto be a playoff team next season the irony is that Colangelo might be the best man for the job. Some of the pieces on his roster now -- young, big, decently-priced -- represent his best work.
Grange on Raptors: The future of Colangelo - sportsnet.ca
Claudius is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 08:10 AM   #2 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,308
Representing:
Default

Good read, can't say i disagree.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 08:31 AM   #3 (permalink)
FLO
sick of the Raptors Axis of Evil: Colangelo, Casey and Bustnani

Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 970
Representing:
Default

He's made some good draft choices, but the biggest problem has been his signings and that Bargnani pick. His overpaying scrubs looks worse every year when he then goes out and finds players like Alan Anderson or Pietrus who outplay his "big" FA signings.
FLO is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 08:39 AM   #4 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,308
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLO View Post
He's made some good draft choices, but the biggest problem has been his signings and that Bargnani pick. His overpaying scrubs looks worse every year when he then goes out and finds players like Alan Anderson or Pietrus who outplay his "big" FA signings.

The Bargnani pick was not a bad pick considering what was there. As for his FA signings, other than Kapono/Fileds I don't see much of a problem with anyone else. Say what you want about Turkoglu, we weren't the only team wanting to give him that type of money and at the time Turkoglu was the best or one of the top 3 FA that summer. Blame Tukoglu for his play.


Draft- he's done pretty well imo
Trades- he's done well imo
Signings- Mixed bag at best, but as a GM in this city good luck attracting Tier one or tier 2 players or anyone with several options

I'd be curious to see how much better another GM would be trying to attract good FA's here. Grunwald had problems getting stars to come here and we had Air Canada at the time and we all know what a disaster Babcock was.

Last edited by jeffb; 12-14-2012 at 08:43 AM.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 09:41 AM   #5 (permalink)
alive.

Member
 
gtanev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: OT
Posts: 402
Representing:
Default

Great article by Grange. Articles likes these sort of push you back into being reasonable. Situation and decisions to fire someone are never as black and white as they seem to be...

Unfortunately for Colangelo, the results just haven't been there, no matter how much logic was actually put into the moves he made.

I am excited to see the young guys contribute right now and see how things progress without Lowry and Bargnani, because if the team starts putting in solid efforts and improves, then the strong voices and leaders in the locker room could be shifted to the young core.
gtanev is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 09:42 AM   #6 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
MBailey85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto,Ontario
Posts: 2,377
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
The Bargnani pick was not a bad pick considering what was there. As for his FA signings, other than Kapono/Fileds I don't see much of a problem with anyone else. Say what you want about Turkoglu, we weren't the only team wanting to give him that type of money and at the time Turkoglu was the best or one of the top 3 FA that summer. Blame Tukoglu for his play.


Draft- he's done pretty well imo
Trades- he's done well imo
Signings- Mixed bag at best, but as a GM in this city good luck attracting Tier one or tier 2 players or anyone with several options

I'd be curious to see how much better another GM would be trying to attract good FA's here. Grunwald had problems getting stars to come here and we had Air Canada at the time and we all know what a disaster Babcock was.
Solid point,legitimate questions. I wonder too,who do they bring in and how much qualifications do they need and would that be more than Colangelo's? Personally,I'd approach Barkley. He understands the game,has a good track record & credibility with the players. Also,he never one as a player so he won't be to unrealistic if they can't meet his expectations immediately. He loves Toronto. Make him President and GM. It's a gamble because he's inexperienced but he wants this opportunity and this will be a good start.
MBailey85 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 10:03 AM   #7 (permalink)
LX
present minded

In the Paint


 
LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 27,696
Representing:
Default

the problem was relying on the free agent market, which is unkind to many teams, instead of making the necessary timely trades. He does a great job of making moves to somewhat erase his mistakes, but that does not help to build anything.
LX is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 10:20 AM   #8 (permalink)
FLO
sick of the Raptors Axis of Evil: Colangelo, Casey and Bustnani

Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 970
Representing:
Default

jeff, you make valid points, but I can't help but feel the team's successes would have been a lot different had we drafted Aldridge, Gay or Roy. I'd have taken Roy at this point even with his knee problems ending his career. We still would've had years of awesome ball with Bosh and Roy in their primes, albeit short.
FLO is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 10:25 AM   #9 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,492
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
the problem was relying on the free agent market, which is unkind to many teams, instead of making the necessary timely trades. He does a great job of making moves to somewhat erase his mistakes, but that does not help to build anything.
Agreed, but like most here seem to want to do, he's always seemingly moving distressed assets for distressed assets. There is no selling high, there is no timeliness of a deal. Even our drafting has been gambling on potential and that potential never being fulfulled. He falls in love with his draft picks rewards them with major extensions before they've earned them. He doubles down on distressed assets repeatedly..... His gamble on Lowry has handcuffed the team from trading any future picks and left us here with a player that is oft-injured, underperforming, will need to be re-signed for more money and has already drawn the ire of his new teammates...... Ugggh.
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 10:31 AM   #10 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,308
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLO View Post
jeff, you make valid points, but I can't help but feel the team's successes would have been a lot different had we drafted Aldridge, Gay or Roy. I'd have taken Roy at this point even with his knee problems ending his career.
Again, the only other option was Aldridge and we all know why he wasn't chosen. Roy had bad knees which was proven 5yrs later and many teams passed on him, rightfully so. You don't choose a player with bad knees with your number one pick when you're coming off a 27 win season. As for Gay, at the time not many knew how good he'd be. Nobody would have taken him at #1. Take a good look at the top 5 that draft, just be thankful we didn't pick Adam Morrisson like some wanted.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 10:34 AM   #11 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,492
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Again, the only other option was Aldridge and we all know why he wasn't chosen. Roy had bad knees which was proven 5yrs later and many teams passed on him, rightfully so. You don't choose a player with bad knees with your number one pick when you're coming off a 27 win season. As for Gay, at the time not many knew how good he'd be. Nobody would have taken him at #1. Take a good look at the top 5 that draft, just be thankful we didn't pick Adam Morrisson like some wanted.
Imagine Tyrus Thomas or Ammo? Gross.... heck, even Sheldon Williams....
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 10:36 AM   #12 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Raptor Fan
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 398
Representing:
Default

Sometime I wonder if he was ordered to try to get Nash for marketing reasons (which left us with the LF mess).

Is this a possibility?

IMO he needs to be fired for that, as well as DD's contract and trading for Lowry (even though I like both players).

More than anything though he needs to be fired for failing to produce a culture of accountability over 7 years.
ollyaaa is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 10:40 AM   #13 (permalink)
contemplating

The Killing Joke

 
Claudius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burkina Faso, Disputed Zone
Posts: 10,025
Representing:
Send a message via MSN to Claudius
Default

I remember before that draft, at the beginning of the NBA season, Gay was essentially the consensus number 1 pick, Bargnani if I'm not mistaken was somewhere in the 4 - 8 range of players to be taken. Number 2 was Tyrus Thomas (there were so many comparisons to him and Marion) I believe. Aldridge was 3 and then I remember seeing Andrea at 4 with Roy at 5 and I believe Foye at 6.

Then Gay had a mediocre year at college and more questions about his desire/heart came out and he fell but I do remember Gay being considered the best player in that draft.

Oh well, it is what is now. We took a guy based on potential and highest upside (I thought highly of the pick and I'm sure some things I said at EBS could be found proving that point). The guy is just like cowardly lion though, has no heart.
Claudius is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 10:40 AM   #14 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,492
Representing:
Default

His two biggest mistakes, trusting Bosh was actually considering coming back and signing Landry Fields to an awful contract in a frantic attempt to double down by blocking the Knicks at making a bid on Nash. Both are huge mistakes and quite amateurish.
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 10:43 AM   #15 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Raptor Fan
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 398
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
His two biggest mistakes, trusting Bosh was actually considering coming back and signing Landry Fields to an awful contract in a frantic attempt to double down by blocking the Knicks at making a bid on Nash. Both are huge mistakes and quite amateurish.
Especially when you consider what we could have possibly got for CB4.

You can't blame him for Bargs. He has the talent to be the best C in the league. I'd have taken him too.
ollyaaa is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 01:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
is a free agent

Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,800
Representing:
Default

To sum it up. He knows how to pick players, and find players that are FA, BUT the fact we got close to nothing for Bosh is insane, look at Denver and what they got for Melo, or even the Cavs, although Bosh never had LBJ's value... We have to admit that Bosh's trade was laughable around the GM... You wanna tell me that we couldn't get a better deal than this??? Hell no. BC waited, and waited, and waited, Bosh played it out like a bitch, he wanted to go to Miami and we couldn't stop it and had no leverage whatsoever. Befor BC's last extension, I thoght it was time to let him go and bring Donnie Walsh here while he was still available.
Tommy C is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 01:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 9,302
Representing:
Default

whatever the fans say, BC is a good GM. He's just not good for us, or for any rebuilding team. You need patience in that role, and all signs point to BC having none. He rushed the process in the 2006, in 2009, 2010 and again in 2012. The moves themselves were mostly good, but the timing was poor.

Just imagine a few alternative histories:

Chance #1
2006 - rather than bring in all that talent, what if we tanked that season, traded CV for a pick and maybe won the lottery, we could have had oden/durant AND another top 10 pick maybe (for CV) in a draft that has a ton of great talent.

Chance #2
2010 - after Bosh leaves, we don't sign amir/kleiza and the rest. Instead, we tank harder for two years and maybe get one of irving/davis. If Bargnani plays like he did in 2010, you trade him after the season for a pick and we could now have at least one much better pick than ross + tons of free cap space.

Chance #3
2012 - no fields, no lowry, trade andrea at his peak etc

every chance he got, he chose the shortcut ... maybe we'll give him another chance in 4-5 years, but for the time being, he needs to go.
moremilk is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 01:17 PM   #18 (permalink)
is a free agent

Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,800
Representing:
Default

He is just not "focused".
Tommy C is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 02:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummomd so people stop whining

Senior Member
 
jeffb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 73,308
Representing:
Default

This is interesting.....


Quote:
Ken Berger ‏@KBergCBS
Buzz in league circles had Embry summoned by ownership, meaning trouble for Colangelo. But Colangelo sought Embry's counsel, sources said.
Quote:
The meeting involving Embry and the board went well, according to a league source briefed on it. But 4-19 Raptors evaluating options.
Quote:
Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange
Also, have it on good authority that Bryan Colangelo not being let go anytime soon #NBA #RTZ

Last edited by jeffb; 12-14-2012 at 03:01 PM.
jeffb is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 05:48 PM   #20 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 94
Representing:
Default

Colangelo's reign has been horrendous and the team is worse off right now than at any point during Babcock's tenure. If Colangelo was in any other city he would have been canned so long ago, no other city would have put up with his shit for this long.
Mobat is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24