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-   -   Grange feels Raptors are better with Ford as their starter (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/grange-feels-raptors-better-ford-their-starter-464.html)

Dr. J. Naismith 01-22-2008 04:52 PM

Grange feels Raptors are better with Ford as their starter
 
When you put the way Michael is here, its hard to argue with him. Would you guys agree with his opinions? :confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Grange
Are the Raptors a better team with Calderon starting? What happens when T.J. Ford comes back?

I still think the Raptors are a better team when Ford starts – providing it’s the steadier, slower version that was on display for long stretches this season. His speed and ability to create his own shot simply put more pressure on the defence and give the Raptors better option at the end of the shot clock. And while he’s not a flawless defender, when he wants to cut off penetration or lock down an opponent, he does that better than Calderon. His turnover numbers and overall efficiency don’t hold up to Calderon’s, but as a penetrating guard his turnovers are always going to be higher. The beauty of the Raptors formula was that when Ford was at his reckless worst, Mitchell could always just give Jose more run. But at his best Ford has more to offer, though the difference is like choosing between different kinds of chocolate ice cream – no matter what you end up with, it’s pretty damn good. The unanswerable question is when (if?) Ford will be at his best again? The best-case scenario this season is Calderon remains starting and a healthy Ford tears up second units down the stretch in March and April, and the battle of all battles for the starting spot in training camp next season.

Link - Click here

Belsius 01-22-2008 05:09 PM

Nope, in my opinion Calde is still better PG than Tj but not by that much. Well at least is almost clear that Calde is going to start this year, so there are no disputes and takes off pressure on tj and calde

MikeToronto 01-22-2008 05:14 PM

:yawn:

And now for something completely different - a professional writer beating the same dead horse.

It's a matter of preference, really, but it stands to reason that he keeps refering to the "slower, steadier" version of Ford as being a better starting PG for our team, in his opinion. That's the thing, though - with Calderon, you KNOW what you are going to get game in, game out. With Ford, one never knew, to this point in time at least, which version of him would show up on any given night. And that's why Jose should start. QED.

Dr. J. Naismith 01-22-2008 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeToronto (Post 5909)
And now for something completely different - a professional writer beating the same dead horse.

Needed to find you someone else Mike seeing how Feschuk isn't as outspoken as he once was. :(

MikeToronto 01-22-2008 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. J. Naismith (Post 5910)
Needed to find you someone else Mike seeing how Feschuk isn't as outspoken as he once was. :(

It's OK, I actually like Grange and respect him even when I don't agree with him.

ClingRap 01-22-2008 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeToronto (Post 5909)
:yawn:

And now for something completely different - a professional writer beating the same dead horse.

It's a matter of preference, really, but it stands to reason that he keeps refering to the "slower, steadier" version of Ford as being a better starting PG for our team, in his opinion. That's the thing, though - with Calderon, you KNOW what you are going to get game in, game out. With Ford, one never knew, to this point in time at least, which version of him would show up on any given night. And that's why Jose should start. QED.

i think his point is that if you, and we, and us and them and i know what you're going to get from calderon, then the appeal for ford as a starter is that in everyone involved not always knowing, there's that undefendable element that ford brings. the uncertainty that keeps opposing guards on their heels and scouts scratching their heads.

Ball Don't Lie 01-22-2008 09:57 PM

We're at our best bench wise when Jose is in the 2nd unit and they can come in and blast teams, especially in the early fourth. Ford gets into the lane more often and gets us more dunks and his patented 14 foot jumper, and we have REALLY missed that go to play especially to start off 3rd qtrs as guaranteed offence. Theyre interchangable really but I as well prefer Ford as the starter until I see us get a backup for Jose where he goes all out for 32-35 minutes instead of just being 'steady' the entire game til the 4th when he finally starts driving the ball. Until Jose probes like Nash ALL game I'll take TJ starting when he comes back because we need the option of having our PG get into the paint nearly every possession and getting us easy points, hose havent come often with him out of the lineup on a consistant basis quarter by quarter. That and TJ's D>>>Jose's.

Sick, Wicked and Nasty! 01-23-2008 11:20 AM

You all know I agree with him so i will spare you the specifics :)

LX 01-23-2008 03:42 PM

We know what we're going to get from Jose? I for one have been very confused as to when and why he brings the ball up extremely slowly, then dribbles, and finally initiates some offence with mere seconds in the shot clock. Even then, often enough, he just passes to someone who is guarded with no good options and no time to spare. That can go on possession after possession until he finally decides to drive the ball a little. It has meant that Bosh has really had to step up as a post player under pressure, so some good has come from it. But now we hear that the plan is to speed things up and get back to finding some early offense.

Bosh says the team is treading water. Sam says that they haven't really figured out how they want to win yet. And they are right, because it's just too soon to say that you know what you get with Jose any more than you do with TJ. They are both developing pgs and they are both headed in pretty much the same direction. TJ needs to be given a bit of a hook to slow him down sometimes. Jose needs a jolt from a cattle prod to get him moving and using his shot more sometimes. But each one at their best, within this system, is not that different from the other.

My preference is for the best of Jose, but I really have not seen much of that this season, like I did last season, good numbers and all. Here's to hoping we see some of that tonight like we did in the good portions of the up and down effort last time out.

LX 01-23-2008 03:46 PM

Oh and I should say that my preference defensively, by far, is with TJ. I'm in agreement with Thriller there. I'm not sure that it's essential that TJ start in order to make use of that strength though. But I would definitely listen to that argument.

Sick, Wicked and Nasty! 01-23-2008 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by •LX• (Post 6168)
Oh and I should say that my preference defensively, by far, is with TJ. I'm in agreement with Thriller there. I'm not sure that it's essential that TJ start in order to make use of that strength though. But I would definitely listen to that argument.

Probably the biggest argument would be to use TJ's defensive abilities on the other team's star guard..and 'hide' Jose's defensive deficiencies against the other team's backup. It's can be viewed as a question of which could hurt your more and I think the answer is usually the starting point guard no?

BballWatcher 01-23-2008 11:13 PM

IMO anyone thinking we're better with TJ just ate some massive crow with Calderon's masterful performance vs Boston.

I'm STRONGLY on the side of Calderon as the starter of the future. He plays totally in control, and gets guys involved.

Belsius 01-23-2008 11:39 PM

I agree with calde being our starter but GOD we need Tj back, I think is going to be amazing Calde starting and Tj backing with all the energy he will bring after being gone for so long. Calde is taking it more to the basket and making more fast breaks, TJ said before his injury was trying to make less of those crazy runs, both players adressing the biggest flaws, Two styles = Unstoppeable at the PGs.

Belsius 01-23-2008 11:41 PM

I mean at least this season

Sick, Wicked and Nasty! 01-24-2008 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BballWatcher (Post 6265)
IMO anyone thinking we're better with TJ just ate some massive crow with Calderon's masterful performance vs Boston.

I'm STRONGLY on the side of Calderon as the starter of the future. He plays totally in control, and gets guys involved.

No we did not. TJ almost beat Boston in December without the benefit of 15 for 21 threes :)

Anyways i'm off that...one game while a very solid performance doesn't lose a guy his job end of story. I recall some 26 and 18 type games froM TJ last year and we werent' dubbing him the next messiah.


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