Grange: Don't expect much - Page 2
Old 12-05-2011, 06:12 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Who cares what position they play if they're a franchise type guy.

The teams I mentioned were built largely through the draft. And in some cases those assets acquired through the draft were moved for other complimentary pieces (Green for Perkins).

And maybe we got lucky in the 2011 draft or we will get lucky in 2012? We're not going to trade for or sign a franchise guy anytime soon, so I see nothing wrong with acquiring assets through the draft and building a solid core fo players.
Hopefully we DO get lucky.... a lot of teams have tried that approach though and it hasn't worked out.... mainly because any solid young players usually look to leave as soon as they're able if they're subjected to a ton of losing.

I still find it incredibly annoying that we've never really been able to draft a decent player OUTSIDE of the lottery (or in the 2nd round). Jeez.... teams find these players every year... why can't we?
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Old 12-05-2011, 06:14 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Raptors have traded the 2nd round pick fairly often the last decade. That's the main reason why, I'd suspect.
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:26 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
I still find it incredibly annoying that we've never really been able to draft a decent player OUTSIDE of the lottery (or in the 2nd round). Jeez.... teams find these players every year... why can't we?
1- the Raps have only had a handful of 1st round picks outside of the lottery. Morris Peterson was decent. Roy Hibbert could have been decent for the Raps but was traded. That leaves Joey Graham and Michael Bradley. Danny Granger was probably the Raps best chance to get a really solid contributor with a non-lottery 1st round pick, but Babcock took Graham.

So, if you're annoyed, you might want to consider Babcock's role in that.

2 - In terms of the 2nd round, it depends what you mean by decent. Rather than just make statements we think are true, why don't we actually look at the facts. I'm gonna do that, in the next part.

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Originally Posted by Ligeia View Post
Raptors have traded the 2nd round pick fairly often the last decade. That's the main reason why, I'd suspect.
3- Yes, they have traded away a few 2nd rounders. They traded two just to get Delfino. However, Delfino was eventually flipped with Ukic for Amir and Sonny. So, three 2nd rounders were turned into Sonny and Amir. That's not bad, actually, because Sonny and Amir are far better than your average second rounder. Most years, you have under a 30% chance of getting someone who will even make your team. Most second rounders never play 100 games for their career. And if your second round pick is after #45, the odds get worse.

The odds of getting a decent rotation player who can last more than 2-3 years in the league are sliim. Most of the 2nd round is crap. If you go back as far as 2000, and then start looking at the 2nd rounders who lasted at least a couple of seasons, this is what you'll find. These are guys who made lineups for a while. A handful are quite good, but most are not even decent.

Between 2000-2010 there were 324 players taken in the second round. This was the cream of the crop. Most of these guys are the type of players you can easily get access to through a minor trade or FA signing. I put a * next to the guys who are massive steals. On average, there is only about 1 per year. A team has under a 10% chance of getting a huge steal. It's not common. The exceptions just stand out in people's minds more. Nobody remembers the 275+ guys who couldn't last 2 seasons in the league.


A lot of these guys are crap, yet they're the best ones.

2000 draft
Voskhul
Eddie House
Najera
*Redd
Jaric

2001 draft
Hassell
*Arenas
Solomon
Scalabrine
*Okur
Earl Watson
Bobby Simmons
Loren Woods
Jarron Collins

2002 draft
Mason Jr.
Gadzuric
David Andersen
Navarro
Ronald Murrary
*Luis Scola

2003 draft
Kapono
Walton
Steve Blake
Willie Green
Pachulia
Bogans
Bonner
*Mo Williams

2004 draft
*Varejao
Duhon
*Ariza
Pape sow

2005 draft
Brandon Bass
C.J Miles
Ilyasova
Turiaf
Von Wafer
*Monta Ellis
Louis Williams
Blatche
Gomes
*Gortat
Amir Johnson

2006 draft
Craig Smith
Daniel Gibson
Ryan Hollins
*Millsap

2007 draft
*Carl Landry
Glen Davis
*Marc Gasol
Ramon Sessions

2008 draft
Joey Dorsey
Mario Chalmers
Deandre Jordan
Sonny Weems
Sean Singleton
Bill Walker

2009 draft
Dante Cunningham
Sam Young
Dejuan Blair ?
Jerebko
Jodie Meeks
Marcus Thornton (might be a big steal)
Budinger
Pat Mills

2010 draft
Landry Fields (tough to say if he's a huge steal yet, or just a decent one)

Aside from him, nobody from 2010 has showed anything.

Last edited by Bill Haverchuck; 12-06-2011 at 04:36 AM.
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:17 AM   #24 (permalink)
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i think you left off a few asterisks, but your point is well made.

and 2005 was a good year for 2nd rounders.
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:04 PM   #25 (permalink)
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If you need more proof not to expect much, other than signing Magloire, the Raps only needed to spend $1 million to be at the salary floor. So they are probably there now with Magloire.

They can sign guys like me and still stay within the rules.


Ladies and gentlemen....we are substantially increasing our odds for that #1 pick.

The only question now is who to pick if we win #1:

Anthony Davis has show plenty of skill and besides, he has just one eyebrow and that eyebrow is always frowning! You can't go wrong there.

But Harrison Barnes can do everything. I'd pick him #1.


Lakers aim for Chris Paul; labor deal OK'd ? USATODAY.com

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/toronto.htm
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