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-   -   Grange: Colangleo and MLSE stuck with each other (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/grange-colangleo-mlse-stuck-each-other-19144.html)

Acie 01-29-2011 11:51 AM

Grange: Colangleo and MLSE stuck with each other
 
Quote:

They know each other well now. They know each others’ faults and they’ve stayed up nights worrying about the long-term contracts they’re each parents to. And now they find themselves asking: Can I do any better? Is this the way it’s always going to be?

Insiders expect the situation to come to a head in mid-February at the next scheduled meeting of the MLSE board.

There are rumours that Colangelo, well-ensconced in Toronto and determined to reboot a club that has floundered under his watch, is seeking a five-year deal and no less than what he’s paid now; terms that some in the ownership group might find steep given the pay-for-performance ethos that permeates the executive suite of the majority owner, the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan.

For his part, Colangelo says he’s made no contract demands and his focus is on taking advantage of the Raptors’ ever-improving draft position by scouting amateur talent more than he has for years.

He’s committed to the relationship

“I haven’t talked to anyone about my contract,” he said Friday. “Anyone who says I have is talking BS. I’m not looking for the door right now; I love being here. My focus is on moving forward.”

He may get his chance, if not his price. Those reading the tea leaves inside the MLSE board room describe a scene where practicality has replaced passion.

“They know he’s not the Messiah they thought he was five years ago,” said one source. “But they’re also realizing no one is. If there was a Messiah, they’d hire him.”

And so it’s come to this: MLSE and Colangelo will likely realize that, for now, they’re stuck with each other.

LINK - Globe and Mail

Don Vito 01-29-2011 11:54 AM

Colangelo needs to stay. I'm impressed by alot of things hes done so far.

TORaptor4Ever 01-29-2011 12:22 PM

I think that the article is pretty bang on.

Claudius 01-30-2011 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito (Post 501341)
Colangelo needs to stay. I'm impressed by alot of things hes done so far.

Sorry, what are you impressed by?

fresh n' spicy 01-30-2011 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito (Post 501341)
Colangelo needs to stay. I'm impressed by alot of things hes done so far.

lol that was the biggest sarcasm ever :mischief:

jj33 01-30-2011 07:11 PM

yeah, I am impressed with the softness he put together year in year out!

Admiral 01-30-2011 07:16 PM

i don't think people understand that there are a lot of players that don't want to come here, whether its the country, team, or whatever
BC basically has to get players by force as in by trade when they have no say
we only get guys like hedo out of free agency, meaning euro guys which usually equate to soft players

jeffb 01-30-2011 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admiral (Post 502201)
i don't think people understand that there are a lot of players that don't want to come here, whether its the country, team, or whatever
BC basically has to get players by force as in by trade when they have no say
we only get guys like hedo out of free agency, meaning euro guys which usually equate to soft players

I agree. If anyone here thinks a new GM is gonna come here and be able to do any better in bringing in top players they're delusional. IMO, when you breakdown his moves they were all perceived to be good-great trades and signings for the most part. The only massive mistake he's made is not getting a real coach in here, one with experience. Let's face it, KO, Sam, Triano are all assistant type coaches who all lacked any NBA HC experience. Yet that's what we've had the last 8 years (that list). Sorry, but as much as i like Sam Mitchel those names don't exactly scream great HC.

surreyjack 01-30-2011 08:10 PM

BC has made some good moves lately, but if BC stays so does his love child Bargnani. He better not fuck up this years draft pick if they resign him.

Snooch 01-30-2011 08:20 PM

Bring in Dr. J.

If BC is to go that is.

And that would bring players here

Claudius 01-30-2011 09:06 PM

All BC has proven to me in the past 5 years are that he's a good trader when acquiring rotation players. Not high end players, but rotation guys.

He had a marquee guy (rightly or wrongly) still a top 30 player in the league at the least, and never really surrounded him with talent.

He tried to re-establish a team here he had some success with in Phoenix and tried everything he could do to establish a running philosophy which seemed to be at odds with the former coach here. Instead of looking at teams like San Antonio who win by executing a simple offensive game plan and defending we looked at a high octane offense.

We looked at 7-8 player turnover year in and year out without establishing who may or may not be core guys.

It was until this past year that some form of commitment to defense was being established.

While hiring BC and well re-hiring is a form of establishing some form of normalcy to this organization, I can't help but feel underwhelmed by what he did here right now. I know, if I was hired in my organization and lost my biggest account and didn't have a back up plan, I'd likely be let go.

Acie 01-30-2011 11:19 PM

In all fairness to Colangelo, he's had a bunch of odd things happen that had they panned out, would've made the team infinitely better. John Salmons backing out after verbally agreeing to do a sign and trade in '06 is one. Ariza turning down more money from the Raps to go to Houston last off-season and the crap with the Bobcats and with Matt Barnes this year.

He's also swung for the fence a few times and come up empty. I like that he's now being patient, accumulating assets and assessing what he has before moving forward.

Chiggmo 01-30-2011 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 502219)
I agree. If anyone here thinks a new GM is gonna come here and be able to do any better in bringing in top players they're delusional. IMO, when you breakdown his moves they were all perceived to be good-great trades and signings for the most part. The only massive mistake he's made is not getting a real coach in here, one with experience. Let's face it, KO, Sam, Triano are all assistant type coaches who all lacked any NBA HC experience. Yet that's what we've had the last 8 years (that list). Sorry, but as much as i like Sam Mitchel those names don't exactly scream great HC.

I was fine with mitchell personally. As far as BC goes. I don't see much of a reason to keep em, but getting someone else won't do much either.

Chiggmo 01-30-2011 11:27 PM

Seriously though, how many times are we gonna have topics about why BC should stay/go its getting beyond redundent, I'm pretty sure everyones made their case by now, and had their say...

Claudius 01-31-2011 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acie (Post 502275)
In all fairness to Colangelo, he's had a bunch of odd things happen that had they panned out, would've made the team infinitely better. John Salmons backing out after verbally agreeing to do a sign and trade in '06 is one. Ariza turning down more money from the Raps to go to Houston last off-season and the crap with the Bobcats and with Matt Barnes this year.

He's also swung for the fence a few times and come up empty. I like that he's now being patient, accumulating assets and assessing what he has before moving forward.

I understand some thing happen. There's absolutely nothing you can do. However, does this only happen to Colangelo? Being fans of this team, we obviously pay more attention to certain news bits, but I question if similar things happen on a regular basis in the NBA but they just don't get leaked.

And while, I admire him for being patient right now, even though he's repeatedly said he's looking to trade for 'something big' with the former Peja expiring and TPE, I just don't like the fact that it took a 'crisis' to come up with this plan. Acquiring assets is something good GMs do no matter what the situation (San Antonio drafting well, Dallas making shrewd moves etc.).

Perhaps I think five years is enough time to do something of substance.

Acie 01-31-2011 09:34 AM

I'm not the biggest Colangelo fan and not to make excuses, but he came here with a head coach and franchise player in place. Unfortunately nothing really worked that he tried - is that enough to dimiss him over? Maybe, but we're in so deep now, I'd let him try and build from the bottom up.

And as far as shrewd moves go, he's made several transactions that I'm sure that I don't need to list that have been nothing short of shrewd.

jeffb 01-31-2011 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acie (Post 502340)
I'm not the biggest Colangelo fan and not to make excuses, but he came here with a head coach and franchise player in place. Unfortunately nothing really worked that he tried - is that enough to dimiss him over? Maybe, but we're in so deep now, I'd let him try and build from the bottom up.

And as far as shrewd moves go, he's made several transactions that I'm sure that I don't need to list that have been nothing short of shrewd.

I'd like to know from people here how many moves, when made were hated by them? I would say not many.

LX 01-31-2011 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 502352)
I'd like to know from people here how many moves, when made were hated by them? I would say not many.

I agree with Acie in that he could have had better luck. However he also could have made better luck for himself.

Yes - criticising moves is pretty much hindsight. But it is possible to be critical of the sum total of all the moves. And for me what is most problematic, because it is what I expected more than anything, is the lack of a solidified culture from year to year.

I suspect that a good number of players have come here with the wrong sense of what they should expect. Some of that likely rests with the players, but does BC do anything to clarify the perspective of incoming players, or does he feed their unrealistic hopes? Every year we see guys excited to be here to show what they can do, and then they fail spectacularly. Is there not a middle ground where these guys could come in, figure out there roles within the whole, and succeed to some degree as the team takes any kind of step forward? There is just no patience to let much of anything breath, but instead out-of-whack expectations that lead to next year's flavor of out-of-whack expectations. Was I wrong to expect more than that? Is that just hindsight? Should I expect anything different going forward?

jeffb 01-31-2011 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX (Post 502375)
I agree with Acie in that he could have had better luck. However he also could have made better luck for himself.

Yes - criticising moves is pretty much hindsight. But it is possible to be critical of the sum total of all the moves. And for me what is most problematic, because it is what I expected more than anything, is the lack of a solidified culture from year to year.

I suspect that a good number of players have come here with the wrong sense of what they should expect. Some of that likely rests with the players, but does BC do anything to clarify the perspective of incoming players, or does he feed their unrealistic hopes? Every year we see guys excited to be here to show what they can do, and then they fail spectacularly. Is there not a middle ground where these guys could come in, figure out there roles within the whole, and succeed to some degree as the team takes any kind of step forward? There is just no patience to let much of anything breath, but instead out-of-whack expectations that lead to next year's flavor of out-of-whack expectations. Was I wrong to expect more than that? Is that just hindsight? Should I expect anything different going forward?

True, that falls on BC but it also falls on coaching. When you look at certain players the last few years you can say they haven't been put in the right positions to succeed and there is a problem with the system being implemented by the coach and his staff. The last two years, you know what i've heard probably more ever before with this team, "they look lost out there" and sorry but that's coaching. There's been such a lack of accountability and vision under Triano. And i blame Colangelo big time for hiring him.

XiaominWu 01-31-2011 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 502380)
The last two years, you know what i've heard probably more ever before with this team, "they look lost out there" and sorry but that's coaching. There's been such a lack of accountability and vision under Triano. And i blame Colangelo big time for hiring him.

dude.... i'm sure if triano could go out on the floor and do it for them, he would. but he can't. you can show a guy the right way to do something a thousand times..... but you can't do it for him. players "looking lost out there" is not on the coaches.


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