Grange: Bargnani, a relationship on the rocks

jeffb · 11-26-2012, 11:51 PM

There's also a video of Grange talking about this if you click the link.

Quote:

If the relationship between fans and a particular athlete is really just that -- a relationship, with all the ebbs and flows and ups and downs the word implies -- it's safe to say that Andrea Bargnani and the Toronto Raptors loyalists are going through a bit of a rough patch right now.

Well, that might be understating it. Vastly. The Toronto Raptors fans, long-suffering, passionate and determined to see only the best in the Dominic McGuire's, Ben Uzoh's and Julian Wright's that have dotted their club's starting lineup at various points the past three years, have pretty much had it with Andrea Bargnani, the enigmatic Roman chucker.

Trade him? There is no doubt a significant number of Raptors fans that think that would be too kind. Are the lions still wandering the Coliseum back home? Can we drop him in there maybe?

The problem with the relationship between Raptors fans and the franchise's only No.1 pick is that the best moment between them may have been when he was presented with a Toronto jersey on stage in New York City and he flashed his slightly goofy, lop-sided grin for the first time.

Right then everything seemed possible. The Raptors had Bryan Colangelo running the show and Bargnani's 47-35 rookie season suggested that the future was wide open.

Since then Bargnani's been someone you badly want to believe in, but so often lets you down. Maddeningly, he seems immune to external motivation -- coddling, threatening, begging and cussing have all been tried, none of them have resulted in Bargnani turning in more of the masterpieces he's capable as opposed to the half-hearted finger paintings he turns in so often. It's disappointing at the best of times, but eventually the anger sets in.

Such as Sunday.

The Raptors lost another heart-crusher in a season in which half of the 11 so far could qualify for that description. Losing in double-overtime to the red-hot San Antonio Spurs is hardly cause for shame, but the Raptors have already lost in triple-overtime at home this season and have three other losses by a combined four points, so the moral victory column is quite full, thank you.

The real wins have been few and far between and with seven of their next eight on the road beginning Tuesday night with a back-to-back against Houston and Memphis, there's no reason to expect them to start rolling in.

Bargnani is forever just a dark cloud away from being a lightning rod and Sunday's loss had all the ingredients. Bargnani hoisted 19 of the shots Raptors fans have become all too familiar with -- the quick threes; the pull-up jumpers to nowhere; the bambi-legged drives that roll off. He made just two shots. Two more would have still meant a crappy game, but it might have been enough for the Raptors to get a win they were dying for.

Quote:

"The shot was terrible today," Bargnani said. "I don't think that my shot has been that bad in my NBA career. What can you do?"

Quote:

D'Antoni also likes big men who can shoot in order to maximize floor spacing. Bargnani -- in theory -- can shoot. D'Antoni speaks Italian. Bargnani is Italian. Gasol could benefit from being the centre piece of an offence again as he tries to secure one more big contract. Would a package featuring Bargnani and Jose Calderon be enough to pry away Gasol and back-up point guard Steve Blake?

The ESPN trade machine says it works. Bargnani has two years and $20 million left on his deal, Calderon is in the last year of a deal that pays him $10 million this season. The Raptors would take $23 million back as each Blake and Gasol have another after this one left.

For the record Colangelo has no comment on such a possibility, or even if he's getting the itch to move his signature draft pick. Off the record Colangelo has no comment on such a possibility or even if he's getting the itch to move his signature pick.

But Colangelo is not shy to trade anything, and ever since he pronounced Bargnani the "enigma of all enigmas" -- and that was after one of his good seasons -- it's reasonable to say that he'd move the non-franchise player for the right deal.

Should he? No one's going to write essays about how Bargnani is or should be untouchable. But like any relationship, it's always best to examine the good and the bad with a calm, cool head.

Bargnani's first 14 games have been below his standards, but does his gruesome showing Sunday and a slow start overall mean more than the last three seasons and nearly 200 games?

Over that stretch Bargnani has been pretty productive. There are only four players in the NBA that have averaged at least 19 points, shot 45 per cent from the field, 35 per cent from three and averaged at least 5.7 rebounds a game, Bargnani's line from 2009-10 to 2011-12. The others are Kevin Durant, Dirk Nowitzki and Kevin Love.

Granted, Bargnani's barely on the list (Durant and Nowitzki are much bigger scorers and Love gets more rebounds in a game than Bargnani does in three) but it's also worth noting that Bargnani is paid $10 million a season, compared with the average of $18-million the other three are getting.

So before Raptors fans swear that it's over between them and the big Roman, what's a better bet, that Bargnani will continue to struggle the way he has in the early going this season, or that at the end of the year he'll end up averaging something close to 20 points and six rebounds a game on 45 per cent shooting, as he has the past three years?

http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/2...ani_struggles/

Raptors1995 · 11-27-2012, 12:05 AM

He mentions a trade many of us have talked about:

Bargnani and Calderon for Gasol and Blake.

Gasol will be better than Bargnani for this team. Both Gasol and Blake will be an expiring next year as well. Stat is available, but that's a bigger risk.

Blaze · 11-27-2012, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptors1995

He mentions a trade many of us have talked about:

Bargnani and Calderon for Gasol and Blake.

Gasol will be better than Bargnani for this team. Both Gasol and Blake will be an expiring next year as well. Stat is available, but that's a bigger risk.

Hell no, we don't need any more old stars on the last legs of their careers. I say we dump off Bargs for either a young small forward or expiring contracts. Looking at are team we have a bunch of young guys, best to get someone who can fit with the team going forward.

Raptors1995 · 11-27-2012, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blaze

Hell no, we don't need any more old stars on the last legs of their careers. I say we dump off Bargs for either a young small forward or expiring contracts. Looking at are team we have a bunch of young guys, best to get someone who can fit with the team going forward.

Everyone would love to have a young small foward, but the one's that were available over the summer are no longer available. Bargnani's trade value is no longer the same. With that said, I think he still has some value. I would argue that Gasol is better than Bargnani right now and would be a much better fit for our team. Gasol would fit better into Casey's system and the same can be said for Bargani with respect to Dantoni's. An expiring is not worth it, unless it's done in conjunction with a lottery pick. Additionally, our draft pick doesn't have good protection this year.

Blaze · 11-27-2012, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptors1995

Everyone would love to have a young small foward, but the one's that were available over the summer are no longer available. Bargnani's trade value is no longer the same. With that said, I think he still has some value. I would argue that Gasol is better than Bargnani right now and would be a much better fit for our team. Gasol would fit better into Casey's system and the same can be said for Bargani with respect to Dantoni's. An expiring is not worth it, unless it's done in conjunction with a lottery pick. Additionally, our draft pick doesn't have good protection this year.

I'm not arguing Gasol would not be a good fit but it would be foolish to get him because by the time we get good he'd be retiring or crappy. I'd be willing to trade him for picks, but not another aged star.

Raptors1995 · 11-27-2012, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blaze

I'm not arguing Gasol would not be a good fit but it would be foolish to get him because by the time we get good he'd be retiring or crappy. I'd be willing to trade him for picks, but not another aged star.

Building through the draft (Cleveland great example) and acquiring picks would have been nice, but the thing is BC gave up our pick this year. We're just going to be sending OKC a really high draft pick, which is top 3 protected this year and eventually unprotected. My reasoning for acquiring Gasol is twofold: he's a better fit and also a big expiring next year. We have the ability to amnesty Amir in 14 and if we get rid of Fields, will have a lot of cap room to work with in 2014. With DeRozan signed for 14 and Valanciunas and T Ross on their rookie contracts, we could potentially re-sign Lowry and Gasol and still have some room to go after a wing in a free agent class that features: Deng, Iggy, and Granger. We would also be more competitive and give Lowry a reason to re-sign with us.

Quinn · 11-27-2012, 02:15 AM

Get Varajao, that boy is a monster this year...

edki · 11-27-2012, 02:21 AM

how about Carlos Boozer?

Bill Haverchuck · 11-27-2012, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck

Bargnani + Calderon for Gasol and Steve Blake.

L.A. might laugh at us though.

Dear Grange, you're welcome for the assistance with writing your article.

Seriously, though, some of the suggestions are so fucking obvious after just a cursory glance at the league payrolls. Must suck to get paid for such a tough job.

Blaze · 11-27-2012, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptors1995

Building through the draft (Cleveland great example) and acquiring picks would have been nice, but the thing is BC gave up our pick this year. We're just going to be sending OKC a really high draft pick, which is top 3 protected this year and eventually unprotected. My reasoning for acquiring Gasol is twofold: he's a better fit and also a big expiring next year. We have the ability to amnesty Amir in 14 and if we get rid of Fields, will have a lot of cap room to work with in 2014. With DeRozan signed for 14 and Valanciunas and T Ross on their rookie contracts, we could potentially re-sign Lowry and Gasol and still have some room to go after a wing in a free agent class that features: Deng, Iggy, and Granger. We would also be more competitive and give Lowry a reason to re-sign with us.

Okay I see your reasoning, doubt it would pan out that way but it makes sense.

Bill Haverchuck · 11-27-2012, 03:00 AM

If the Lakers were to do that trade, it's really Bargnani + Calderon + a potential cockblock. OKC owns our pick. If Gasol played respectable ball on both ends, and worked well with JV, we could be a better overall squad and win more games, which would hurt OKC's draft position. Don't underestimate the value of the cockblock.

rapsmannn · 11-27-2012, 05:06 AM

well my thoughts on this topic

bargnani is a guy who doesn't care, doesn't play hard, relaxes on defense, and only shows up in half the games

he gives us hope and int he enxt play takes it awayy

as a raptor fan i thought last year he finally understood it, but cleary in his 7th season, never been an allstar and cleary not trying to be then whats the point with this guy

i say we move him for a 3

by the way i've been watching Bargnani his whole career defended him almost all the time, if you read back on some early posts you could even see me making excuses for him

but even one of his biggest supporters can't take it anymore

i cand wait anymore for him to do what i think he should, i cant watch another season of this fail and throw his true talent away,

his game yesterday has nothing to do with me coming to this opinion, its the fact that its been 7 years and he still inconsistent on the court, on both sides of the ball, shows no heart, and never uses his brain to make the right decisions on the court to help his teammates

he just doenst get it

LX · 11-27-2012, 07:16 AM

I remember when I thought he had an Elvis-like sneer. But it really is a goofy, lop-sided grin.

Quinn · 11-27-2012, 07:30 AM

If we are going to rebuild, we need to do it right.... ditch Bargs he has been a cancer for a faried, varajao or a Josh smith in a package deal.

Chuck Ed Davis in the 4, he's been playing rather well and provides epic rebounding ability.

DD is getting better by the season.

Lowry is the leader and JVal is the future star.

WE NEED TO GET THIS SHIT SORTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

carp · 11-27-2012, 07:52 AM

The raps should hold tight... we're 3-11... nobody is giving you a good deal for any of our losers right now. Bargnani is one of many on this team that is stinking the joint up. Time to hold tight and wait, see if Casey can get these guys to dig deep.

xplode · 11-27-2012, 07:52 AM

Bargnani is a total waste of space

carp · 11-27-2012, 08:11 AM

This is where every media piece begins to be about how AB must go and we eventually end up with Eric and Aaron Williams and some disgruntled guy that wants to go elsewhere to win a championship.... only this time we don't get the pick to draft Joey. This city loves to sell low! LA is probably looking to dump off more damaged good......

RAPMAN · 11-27-2012, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp

The raps should hold tight... we're 3-11... nobody is giving you a good deal for any of our losers right now. Bargnani is one of many on this team that is stinking the joint up. Time to hold tight and wait, see if Casey can get these guys to dig deep.

Out of the main guys on the team, Bargnani sticking up the joint. Demar is having the best seaon of his career, Jonas is really picking up and is playing as advertised, and Lowry has provided solid defense at the point and provided the necessary scoring punch the team needs. Hold tight, don't sell low as you say, its the same optimism and hope (as Bargnani Fanboys) management has provided to this guy for more than 6 years, that has put this franchise in this hole. Its the Bargnani haters (realist), US media, and now the Canadian media that says his time has run out!! I'll go back to previous thread this summer, do you hold on the Research In Motion (Bargnani) stock hoping that it picks up, or do you hold on it when it becomes a penny stock.

carp · 11-27-2012, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAPMAN

Out of the main guys on the team, Bargnani sticking up the joint. Demar is having the best seaon of his career, Jonas is really picking up and is playing as advertised, and Lowry has provided solid defense at the point and provided the necessary scoring punch the team needs. Hold tight, don't sell low as you say, its the same optimism and hope (as Bargnani Fanboys) management has provided to this guy for more than 6 years, that has put this franchise in this hole. Its the Bargnani haters (realist), US media, and now the Canadian media that says his time has run out!! I'll go back to previous thread this summer, do you hold on the Research In Motion (Bargnani) stock hoping that it picks up, or do you hold on it when it becomes a penny stock.

You were wrong to sell RIM back then... it's jumped since.

**Claudius** · 11-27-2012, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck

Dear Grange, you're welcome for the assistance with writing your article.

Seriously, though, some of the suggestions are so fucking obvious after just a cursory glance at the league payrolls. Must suck to get paid for such a tough job.

:applauds:

Thank you.

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11-27-2012, 12:05 AM	#2 (permalink)
Raptors1995 is it's time to empty the trash Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,025 Representing:	He mentions a trade many of us have talked about: Bargnani and Calderon for Gasol and Blake. Gasol will be better than Bargnani for this team. Both Gasol and Blake will be an expiring next year as well. Stat is available, but that's a bigger risk.

11-27-2012, 02:15 AM	#7 (permalink)
Quinn is already sick of his injury! Team Captain Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Gold Coast Posts: 331 Representing:	Get Varajao, that boy is a monster this year...

11-27-2012, 02:21 AM	#8 (permalink)
edki is limitless...in his dreams Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Vancouver Posts: 303 Representing:	how about Carlos Boozer?

11-27-2012, 03:00 AM	#11 (permalink)
Bill Haverchuck is 100 grand in a rubber band The Mara sisters are hot! Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 8,931 Representing:	If the Lakers were to do that trade, it's really Bargnani + Calderon + a potential cockblock. OKC owns our pick. If Gasol played respectable ball on both ends, and worked well with JV, we could be a better overall squad and win more games, which would hurt OKC's draft position. Don't underestimate the value of the cockblock.

11-27-2012, 05:06 AM	#12 (permalink)
rapsmannn is boston wins a championship and gets to rebuild with wiggins, parker wtf Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,473 Representing:	well my thoughts on this topic bargnani is a guy who doesn't care, doesn't play hard, relaxes on defense, and only shows up in half the games he gives us hope and int he enxt play takes it awayy as a raptor fan i thought last year he finally understood it, but cleary in his 7th season, never been an allstar and cleary not trying to be then whats the point with this guy i say we move him for a 3 by the way i've been watching Bargnani his whole career defended him almost all the time, if you read back on some early posts you could even see me making excuses for him but even one of his biggest supporters can't take it anymore i cand wait anymore for him to do what i think he should, i cant watch another season of this fail and throw his true talent away, his game yesterday has nothing to do with me coming to this opinion, its the fact that its been 7 years and he still inconsistent on the court, on both sides of the ball, shows no heart, and never uses his brain to make the right decisions on the court to help his teammates he just doenst get it

11-27-2012, 07:16 AM	#13 (permalink)
LX is a belly putter in a world of crotch shots In the Paint Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 23,572 Representing:	I remember when I thought he had an Elvis-like sneer. But it really is a goofy, lop-sided grin.

11-27-2012, 07:30 AM	#14 (permalink)
Quinn is already sick of his injury! Team Captain Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Gold Coast Posts: 331 Representing:	If we are going to rebuild, we need to do it right.... ditch Bargs he has been a cancer for a faried, varajao or a Josh smith in a package deal. Chuck Ed Davis in the 4, he's been playing rather well and provides epic rebounding ability. DD is getting better by the season. Lowry is the leader and JVal is the future star. WE NEED TO GET THIS SHIT SORTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

11-27-2012, 07:52 AM	#15 (permalink)
carp is the rebirth of thick Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 10,706 Representing:	The raps should hold tight... we're 3-11... nobody is giving you a good deal for any of our losers right now. Bargnani is one of many on this team that is stinking the joint up. Time to hold tight and wait, see if Casey can get these guys to dig deep.

11-27-2012, 07:52 AM	#16 (permalink)
xplode is tired seeing DD taking turn around, fade away jump shot Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 166 Representing:	Bargnani is a total waste of space

11-27-2012, 08:11 AM	#17 (permalink)
carp is the rebirth of thick Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 10,706 Representing:	This is where every media piece begins to be about how AB must go and we eventually end up with Eric and Aaron Williams and some disgruntled guy that wants to go elsewhere to win a championship.... only this time we don't get the pick to draft Joey. This city loves to sell low! LA is probably looking to dump off more damaged good......