Grange: Bargnani, a relationship on the rocks - Page 2
Old 11-27-2012, 09:06 AM   #21 (permalink)
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You were wrong to sell RIM back then... it's jumped since.
Kinda like the start of Bargnani last year, time to sell. Unfortunately, the Raptors didn't and now their asset has devalued with few buyers in the market.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:33 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I have to say, it's interesting to see the Toronto basketball media turning on Bargnani. Maybe they're setting us up for the inevitable breakup? Has Doug Smith jumped on board the hate train yet or is he still eating his donuts?
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:42 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Why are we suddenly so desperate to sell Bargs at the lowest his stock will ever be? No teams are looking to trade for a guy partly responsible for this bad start. We keep talking about getting Gasol or Amare but that is NOT what we'd get back. Trading those guys would cause panic among the LA or NYC fan bases that they are "sellers." The only teams that would want Bargnani are playoff teams looking for a role player to hit open looks. Those kind of teams aren't giving up starters.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:41 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Kinda like the start of Bargnani last year, time to sell. Unfortunately, the Raptors didn't and now their asset has devalued with few buyers in the market.
There is always a buyer for a 7 footer that can shoot, but yeah, you might not get full value right now.... but the market is cyclical... patience is generally rewarded.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:58 AM   #25 (permalink)
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There is always a buyer for a 7 footer that can shoot, but yeah, you might not get full value right now.... but the market is cyclical... patience is generally rewarded.
Yes, patience is rewarded if you're willing to get the best value at the trade dealine. I think Bargnani will pick it up offensively because he can't be as bad as he has started. But he still gives you very little on the defensive end and still is a minus on the floor. As shown from the start of the season, the existing players will lead you straight to the lottery again. If you are willing to sacrfice the season, trade Bargnani at the trade dealine and potentially get the best value. If you want to salvage the season, trade Bargnani and obtain a player who will make a contribution and impact on the team. It depends what you want? Do want to get the best value and wait till the deadline, or do you get less value and improve your chances to make the playoffs.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:33 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Kinda like the start of Bargnani last year, time to sell. Unfortunately, the Raptors didn't and now their asset has devalued with few buyers in the market.
Not sure if you're making the right analogy, I bought RIM 2 months ago at 7.5, it's now up to 11.5 and with the BB10 coming out soon, that stock will be worth at least 3-4 times than what I bought it at. 2 months....hey BB10 and the trade deadline, coincidence? I think not..........

Sometimes patience is a virtue.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:45 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Yes, patience is rewarded if you're willing to get the best value at the trade dealine. I think Bargnani will pick it up offensively because he can't be as bad as he has started. But he still gives you very little on the defensive end and still is a minus on the floor. As shown from the start of the season, the existing players will lead you straight to the lottery again. If you are willing to sacrfice the season, trade Bargnani at the trade dealine and potentially get the best value. If you want to salvage the season, trade Bargnani and obtain a player who will make a contribution and impact on the team. It depends what you want? Do want to get the best value and wait till the deadline, or do you get less value and improve your chances to make the playoffs.
Neither makes sense to me, since in reality, the Raps are not making the playoffs in either scenario. I'm not sure what all the fuss is, so we're 3-11 in probably the most competitive division in the league, the Raps have challenged the top teams, the team has had injuries already and everyone here knew the team would struggle right at the start of the year (since the schedule is brutal). It's not like we were getting into the playoffs this year and truly, pipe dreaming if anyone thought the team was. Posters here keep saying this is BC's year 'or else' but I personally doubt it - this is not the year for the Raps 'to put it together'. It's next year, after JC is gone, the wing issues are addressed, the PF position unclogged, signing a big name FA and it will be KL's contract year. Everything is riding on next year, not this one - people need to chill.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:56 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Michael grage is a good guy, be nice, hed be nice to you if you met him.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:16 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 View Post
Not sure if you're making the right analogy, I bought RIM 2 months ago at 7.5, it's now up to 11.5 and with the BB10 coming out soon, that stock will be worth at least 3-4 times than what I bought it at. 2 months....hey BB10 and the trade deadline, coincidence? I think not..........

Sometimes patience is a virtue.
I agree with you however the last time the raps made playoffs was like 6 years ago. Patience for the city can go for so long... but i feel its time to change. Bargnani is too slow in terms of footwork, too heavy, he relies on his shot most of the time. he can drive, but is erratic. his flaws are coming out the most in this season more than ever.. mainly cause his shot is not falling and not stepping up when the team needs him.

bottom line, its time for a change...again lol. grange has some good points.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:32 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I question the concept that it's motivation with Bargnani. I think he just truly sucks.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:34 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DocHoliday99 View Post
Not sure if you're making the right analogy, I bought RIM 2 months ago at 7.5, it's now up to 11.5 and with the BB10 coming out soon, that stock will be worth at least 3-4 times than what I bought it at. 2 months....hey BB10 and the trade deadline, coincidence? I think not..........

Sometimes patience is a virtue.
Stop looking short-term, its an Apple and Samsung world. Long-term, RIM is worthless. Two months ago, that's when we should have sold Bargnani.

Last edited by RAPMAN; 11-27-2012 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:39 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Neither makes sense to me, since in reality, the Raps are not making the playoffs in either scenario. I'm not sure what all the fuss is, so we're 3-11 in probably the most competitive division in the league, the Raps have challenged the top teams, the team has had injuries already and everyone here knew the team would struggle right at the start of the year (since the schedule is brutal). It's not like we were getting into the playoffs this year and truly, pipe dreaming if anyone thought the team was. Posters here keep saying this is BC's year 'or else' but I personally doubt it - this is not the year for the Raps 'to put it together'. It's next year, after JC is gone, the wing issues are addressed, the PF position unclogged, signing a big name FA and it will be KL's contract year. Everything is riding on next year, not this one - people need to chill.
Yeah, lets throw the season after 14 games. We are only 4.5 games from the playoffs after some close matches.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:53 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I continue to contend that it's not so much about making the playoffs as much as it is seeing it as a possibility, and most importantly gaining a good deal more clarity as to how to move forward with this team. I think the mish mash of a roster that has made it difficult for this team to win in spite of good performances and increased overall talent, stands out as one clear and obvious thing that needs to be acted upon. That means Andrea, that means Jose, that means guys like Kleiza and Fields. Not everything is going to get settled out properly, especially immediately. But something has to happen pretty soon to get the ball rolling and reinforce what is working.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:56 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Stop looking short-term, its an Apple and Samsung world. Long-term, RIM is worthless. Two months ago, that's when we should have sold Bargnani.
Disagree, it's a cyclical market and huge corporations fall all the time and others rebound. Shortterm is thinking that any one or two companies can dominate an industry that is ever-changing and dynamic.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:07 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Bargs rebounding and defense should mean he gets disqualified from any list with Love, Durant and Nowitski.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:09 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I bought RIM 2 months ago at 7.5, it's now up to 11.5 and with the BB10 coming out soon, that stock will be worth at least 3-4 times than what I bought it at.
That's insanity.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:22 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Bargs rebounding and defense should mean he gets disqualified from any list with Love, Durant and Nowitski.
You can't make arbitrary rules to decide what counts and what doesn't.... otherwise you could say Durant doesn't make the list cause of his colour.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:41 PM   #38 (permalink)
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That's insanity.
Nope, it ain't, or at least I hope so. I've been a huge RIM supporter for years and both used and coded for their devices, at least until they've decided to screw the pooch and acquired QNX. However, for all their shortcomings, they are a great Canadian company and I will root for them to rebound with BB10.

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Old 11-27-2012, 01:48 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Why are we suddenly so desperate to sell Bargs at the lowest his stock will ever be? No teams are looking to trade for a guy partly responsible for this bad start. We keep talking about getting Gasol or Amare but that is NOT what we'd get back. Trading those guys would cause panic among the LA or NYC fan bases that they are "sellers." The only teams that would want Bargnani are playoff teams looking for a role player to hit open looks. Those kind of teams aren't giving up starters.
welcome to rf rochesterrapsfan.

i've switched to the 'get rid of bargnani' train simply because i can't stand watching his lazy ass anymore. if a guy isn't going to bother trying i can't possibly hope for him. you're right that his stock is low, but i don't want his passionless loafing to infect the younger guys. i've simply lost hope that he will ever be a solid pro.
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:10 PM   #40 (permalink)
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1. When you're General Manager call you out and states his former No. 1 pick is "the Enigma of all Enigmas"

2. After leading the team in mintues in the two seasons where the Raps were ranked the worst defensive team in NBA history, and your response is "I do more complex things then play defense"

There were signs several years ago that this might not be the guy or one of core pieces you build around, but BC ignored it. Its too late!! The ship has sailed to get fair value, now you are selling below market value while your company takes it on the chin this year.
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