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-   -   Go to Guy, Bargs or DD? (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/go-guy-bargs-dd-19171.html)

FoldedLaundry 01-31-2011 01:25 AM

Go to Guy, Bargs or DD?
 
I was reading an article on the daily dish and it read how DD is slowing becoming the "go-to-guy". Now who would you prefer to be the "go-to-guy", DD or Bargs? I would choose DD since he has more potential and the skills. He can score, he's improving on defense, starting to get boards, and sooner or later help create shots for people when double teamed or what not. I would like to see him become our go-to-guy.

Dutches 01-31-2011 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoldedLaundry (Post 502291)
I was reading an article on the daily dish and it read how DD is slowing becoming the "go-to-guy". Now who would you prefer to be the "go-to-guy", DD or Bargs? I would choose DD since he has more potential and the skills. He can score, he's improving on defense, starting to get boards, and sooner or later help create shots for people when double teamed or what not. I would like to see him become our go-to-guy.

yeah me too
Jose is developing the same habits with Bargs that he did with Bosh. walk up, Dish it in. DD is at least a little more versatile. However Bargs does have game when he feels like it. Demar should at least get a shot at being the number one option this year.

KollegeKid 01-31-2011 02:04 AM

Demar still needs to develop a consistent jump shot and extend his range out to the 3pt line though. otherwise, at the moment, he's too predictable with his drives and his occasional spins in the paint.

Metallikid 01-31-2011 02:16 AM

The whole point is NOT TO RELY ON ONE PLAYER. We did that and it didn't work and saying "let's wait for x player to develop to see if they can be that one player" is a shitty fallback. Both Andrea and DeMar are strong offensive players, give them both touches and let them play off of each other, that's the right strategy.

Chiggmo 01-31-2011 02:45 AM

Bargs is a big dumb lazy soft C, whose inconsistent as all hell, I wouldn't rely on him as even a second option.

Naj_Irban 01-31-2011 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiggmo (Post 502298)
Bargs is a big dumb lazy soft C, whose inconsistent as all hell, I wouldn't rely on him as even a second option.


A teeny little bit harsh but I agree with the general message.

Chiggmo 01-31-2011 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naj_Irban (Post 502342)
A teeny little bit harsh but I agree with the general message.

Ya I was drinkin so it probably was a bit harsh. But the point was that I wouldn't give him the privilege of being a number 1 or 2 option if he's not going to put the effort in on either side of the court.

Sick, Wicked and Nasty! 01-31-2011 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiggmo (Post 502345)
Ya I was drinkin so it probably was a bit harsh. But the point was that I wouldn't give him the privilege of being a number 1 or 2 option if he's not going to put the effort in on either side of the court.

Your most skilled player is your first option and like it or not Andrea is our most skilled offensive player. You would do the same in Triano's shoes especially when your boss is the one that drafted him first overall ;)

Don Vito 01-31-2011 11:56 AM

DeRozan. Where have we got with Bargnani being the go to guy? Oh yeah, 11 game losing streak.

Chiggmo 01-31-2011 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sick, Wicked and Nasty! (Post 502359)
Your most skilled player is your first option and like it or not Andrea is our most skilled offensive player. You would do the same in Triano's shoes especially when your boss is the one that drafted him first overall ;)

Actually no... I wouldn't I don't care who drafted him, and honestly, hes not skilled at all if he can't even be semi-consistant, and can't play anywhere on the court other than the 3-pt line.

Theres a reason this team is shit, and playing a guy just because your boss drafted him and your worried about your job for experimenting in a tank year is part of it.

Sorry but if a guy is putting up 20+ shots a game and can't even average 20 points (I mean over this losing streak) than why the hell would you wanna give him the ball?

Also if it wasn't for Jose having the man-crush on his fellow Euro, than Bargs wouldn't even get points because any smart PG wouldn't give him the ball so much, at least all these nights where he can't shoot at all, and just causes a stagnent offence.

Also this team has proven it can put nice fluent offence together and get some good runs going WITHOUT bargs playing (either injured or sitting on the bench) due to the athleticism and the team just gels better.

People complained about Bosh being a black hole, so whats Bargs? A black hole without as much effective scoring.

Sick, Wicked and Nasty! 01-31-2011 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiggmo (Post 502366)
Actually no... I wouldn't I don't care who drafted him, and honestly, hes not skilled at all if he can't even be semi-consistant, and can't play anywhere on the court other than the 3-pt line.

Theres a reason this team is shit, and playing a guy just because your boss drafted him and your worried about your job for experimenting in a tank year is part of it.

Sorry but if a guy is putting up 20+ shots a game and can't even average 20 points (I mean over this losing streak) than why the hell would you wanna give him the ball?

Also if it wasn't for Jose having the man-crush on his fellow Euro, than Bargs wouldn't even get points because any smart PG wouldn't give him the ball so much, at least all these nights where he can't shoot at all, and just causes a stagnent offence.

Also this team has proven it can put nice fluent offence together and get some good runs going WITHOUT bargs playing (either injured or sitting on the bench) due to the athleticism and the team just gels better.

People complained about Bosh being a black hole, so whats Bargs? A black hole without as much effective scoring.

Now you're just talking out of your ass.

First of all, you don't average 21 points a game in the NBA if you're not skilled. Yes Bargs has struggled with his shot lately..that happens to all good players but he's still our most skilled offensive player and a smart coach knows that to win you ride your best horse. There isn't a lot of talent on this team, healthy right now and yes there have been a few runs put together by some of the other players but they're not good enough to carry a team every night. Bargnani is the closest thing we have to that.

If you don't think Triano has been influenced by his GM to give the keys to the offence to Bargnani you're just naive. Colangelo is not a fool... to have interest in the team you need a big name, a big time scorer and he drafted AB so there's personal pride on the line. If Triano wants to keep his job he has to make his GM happy and part of that will be giving Bargnani the chance to become the star BC thinks he can. You go against your GM and you find yourself on the outside looking in.

I'm not saying Bargnani is the type of player you build a team around, but I am saying he's the most talented offensive player we have on the roster and combined with the political factors surrounding the GM this is why he's the focus of our offence and no matter what coach you put in place not named Jackson or Sloan..that's how it will be with the current roster.

Chiggmo 01-31-2011 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sick, Wicked and Nasty! (Post 502373)
Now you're just talking out of your ass.

First of all, you don't average 21 points a game in the NBA if you're not skilled. Yes Bargs has struggled with his shot lately..that happens to all good players but he's still our most skilled offensive player and a smart coach knows that to win you ride your best horse. There isn't a lot of talent on this team, healthy right now and yes there have been a few runs put together by some of the other players but they're not good enough to carry a team every night. Bargnani is the closest thing we have to that.

If you don't think Triano has been influenced by his GM to give the keys to the offence to Bargnani you're just naive. Colangelo is not a fool... to have interest in the team you need a big name, a big time scorer and he drafted AB so there's personal pride on the line. If Triano wants to keep his job he has to make his GM happy and part of that will be giving Bargnani the chance to become the star BC thinks he can. You go against your GM and you find yourself on the outside looking in.

I'm not saying Bargnani is the type of player you build a team around, but I am saying he's the most talented offensive player we have on the roster and combined with the political factors surrounding the GM this is why he's the focus of our offence and no matter what coach you put in place not named Jackson or Sloan..that's how it will be with the current roster.

Ya I get what your saying about the influence from BC, but thats just because hes too proud to admit the mistake he made with bargs, although that draft sucked so its not entirely his fault, but he's obviously just can't admit that the guy is a bust.

As for averaging 20+ points, I hope he would be the guy takes half or more of his teams shots every game. If you can't average 20 with the amount of touches this guy gets, then he shouldn't even be in the league period.

I also agree theres not a lot of talent on this team, but it doesn't mean you can't give players more of a chance to get their shot down in game situations and give them a chance to develop, hell its not like were gonna win anyway.

As for bargs' touches, I'm talkin the games he struggles, like he has this whole losing streak, I'm not saying he shouldn't get the ball at all, but if hes gonna stuggle this bad, give some other players a chance, even more so if they are hittin their shots on that night. To me, its evident that when bargs struggles, it lasts all game, and the guy just can't ever seem to get through it. so rather than waste 10+ possesions with his horrid shots on those nights, give it someone else at least, can't hurt.

Also I won't even try to argue that this team would be any better with another coach, but gaurenteed we wouldn't be having 11 game losing streaks, half of it is the decisions on subs and playing time that Triano makes, their horrible. Bayless has his good games, and then the next game gets like 6 minutes. How does that honestly make any sense? As it stands now Bayless is the future PG of this team, pending the draft and/or future trades. Give the guy more of a chance.

I'm not trying to say this is solely on Bargs, or Triano, but a lot of it is. Pressure or not, you have to do whats right for the team, and if its starts resulting in better performances, than you can't be fired for something that works. Isn't this supposed to be an experimental year? So start experimenting rather than following the failing routine.

Sick, Wicked and Nasty! 01-31-2011 12:59 PM

Well exageration aside, Bargnani averages about 17 shots a game... and team I believe takes a lot more than 34 shots total :) Anyways... while Bargnani is struggling you do need to look for other ways to score and as a team they've struggled with that. At least when Kleiza and Barbosa were healthy there were legitimate options there. Barbosa's value to this team can't be more clear now in the midst of this losing streak. He was instant offense even if he wasn't the most efficient scorer.

Bargnani will never get out of the slump though if he doens't keep shooting. I think from a coaching standpoint the only thing Triano's not doing well is getting Andrea to do more inside work. He's not setting him up with good post position, favouring instead giving him the ball out by the arc. Andrea always does better with an early game dunk or a couple easy baskets from within a few feet. Lately he's starting from outside and that is not a recipe for success.

powerfulpanda 01-31-2011 01:07 PM

i would say DD just for the fact that Bargs is lazy and we should award him with being our go to guy.
Bargs is a one dimensional player and that one dimension is sooooo inconsistant. when he is not scoring he is of absolute no help to the team and that should never be the case. there are so many things u can help the team with when ur struggling on the offensive end and he just freakin doesn't get it!!
thats why one dimensional players are pretty much useless in basketball. AND if ur gonna be one cuz thats ur game AT LEAST make that one dimension really really really good.
ie durant/melo with scoring, joel anthony with defence/blocks, etc
bargs offensive is not top tier, he's just averaging 20+ points cuz he gets most of the touches on a crap team. if u disagree with that, u can look at even as recent as last year when we had bosh and bargs was averaging below 20 ppg

ha123 01-31-2011 01:32 PM

For THIS team right now I would say DD. But in reality both of them are just scoring well on a bad team. Derozan looks like he forces things out there even if he has a 20 point night. Bargs just chucks and chucks until he gets his 20 points.

Derozan at best can become a good third maybe second option on a GOOD team. And Bargs can be sixth man off the bench on a GOOD team.

A "go-to-guy" is someone you give the ball to when you despretley need a bucket. Derozan and bargs are not those players. Bosh was a really good go to scorer. Even though he wasn't a superstar, he was one hell of an offensive player and got you buckets easily.

fresh n' spicy 01-31-2011 01:54 PM

put bargs on any other team besides the cavaliers he is just a guy comin of the bench. Yes hes averaging over 20 ppg but on a bad team somebody has to score and his field goal percentage makes me want to vomit meanwhile derozan attacks the basket and is showing some really good signs of being a dominant player (plus i have a derozan jersey)

Thug 01-31-2011 02:20 PM

DeRozan, easily. For now and the future.

carp 01-31-2011 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fresh n' spicy (Post 502403)
put bargs on any other team besides the cavaliers he is just a guy comin of the bench. Yes hes averaging over 20 ppg but on a bad team somebody has to score and his field goal percentage makes me want to vomit meanwhile derozan attacks the basket and is showing some really good signs of being a dominant player (plus i have a derozan jersey)

put DD on another team and he'd be coming off the bench.... he's still not a top 20 SG.

Both can be starting pieces... but not with the other three starters on our team.

Kirby 01-31-2011 05:01 PM

Neither...

DDaring 01-31-2011 05:12 PM

None of the above.

Both got off to good starts this season, but they've trailed off big-time lately.


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