"Gimmick defenses"
Old 11-20-2008, 04:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question "Gimmick defenses"

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Count Udonis Haslem as an old school kind of player that doesn't like the kind of gimmick defenses that coaches like Don Nelson utilize.

"It gets old after a while," Haslem said. "Basketball is supposed to be 5-on-5. People mix all those junk defenses. To me, I feel like that's kind of cowardly. Just play ball."
Could someone please, please explain to me what he means by that? I mean, it looks like English, but I just can't penetrate his meaning...
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Old 11-20-2008, 04:51 PM   #2 (permalink)
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i think it means "i have a one-dimensional game, and zone defenses are tricky for me to handle, so i wish teams would just play me straight-up so i can understand what i'm facing"
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Old 11-20-2008, 04:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 'trane View Post
i think it means "i have a one-dimensional game, and zone defenses are tricky for me to handle, so i wish teams would just play me straight-up so i can understand what i'm facing"
In other words - "I am a moron, please hold me back for a year" ?
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Old 11-20-2008, 04:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
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or perhaps "treat me gently, i don't like big suprises..."
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Old 11-20-2008, 04:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
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That quote just disrespected a Hall of Famer like Jim Beohiem who lived off zone defenses. Personally I love a team that can switch up defenses at any give time. Granted in the NBA zone's don't work most of the time but they can serve a purpose.

Too bad The Raptors personell and coaching staff can't utilize "gimmick" defenses at all
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:35 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm pretty sure I saw the Raps playing zone last night and before that.

Yup.
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:37 PM   #7 (permalink)
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That and man toman is the only defensive play Sam has.
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Old 11-20-2008, 06:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Complaining about them makes Udonis sound like a biznitch (Unless he's talking about his own team, then I respect what he's saying), but relying on gimmick defenses is a definite sign of weakness. Once you get down to the last 8 teams, if your man2man isn't good enough, gimmick defenses aren't going to help you one bit. Not in the NBA.

Last edited by bjjs; 11-20-2008 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Maybe Udonis thinks that the beauty of game is destroyed by some strategies that Don Nelson is using. Is something like "Hack a Shaq" strategy that Spurs applied against Suns which is kind of cowardly.
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Cowardly but funny
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:58 PM   #11 (permalink)
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'gimmick' and 'junk' defences refer to a type of zone defence that a team uses when it cant contain the opposing team's personel in man to man. defences like box-and-one and triangle-and-two. Usually involve containning the top players and force role players to step up.
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:43 PM   #12 (permalink)
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i applaud haslem. i hated that the nba incorporated zone and whatever variation teams are using. i think it's the greatest contributor to the league being full of pansies who'd rather be a weak-side defender than being able to contain their own man. time after time, these type of players turn out to be frauds. right ben wallace!
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Old school man to man is the way true teams own you up :P
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:14 AM   #14 (permalink)
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apparently gsw is also doing a lot of hand checking and holding, at least that's what I heard on TV last year, I don't follow them so I've only seen a handful of games. It's a tactic Don Nelson likes to employ, hoping that the referees get tired of calling foul on every possesion like they could. Usually he waits to see how the refs adapt, if they don'y become more lenient, he backs down.
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:26 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Cowardly?

Shit, is it also cowardly to design offensive plays that take advantage of defensive weaknesses? Shouldn't you just attack straight up, man on man? Huh? None of this pick and roll bullshit trickery!
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Old 11-21-2008, 02:36 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Cowardly?

Shit, is it also cowardly to design offensive plays that take advantage of defensive weaknesses? Shouldn't you just attack straight up, man on man? Huh? None of this pick and roll bullshit trickery!
Lol.... Wu I heart u.

Basketball is a TEAM game... on both sides of the ball. And that's the way that it should be played IMO. Without apologies.
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:17 PM   #17 (permalink)
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OMG, this thread is so ripe with pseudo macho bullshit I am wearing a gas mask from now on. Thanks, Funk, great input, now don your ancestral armor and go fight a helicopter one-on-one. You can always pretend it's a dragon.

Best offensive wing players in this league cannot be contained one-on-one. Not by anyone, and most certainly not by anyone on our team. Should the Raptors commit collective suicide to satisfy the purists?
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:24 PM   #18 (permalink)
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help defense still exists in man-to-man situations....

the only thing is really appreciate about zone is that it somewhat limits iso's. past that, it's garbage.

and Mike

for someone who likes the game as exciting as you do, do realize that zone limits all that high flying up-tempo slashing goodness
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:28 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Filth View Post
help defense still exists in man-to-man situations....

the only thing is really appreciate about zone is that it somewhat limits iso's. past that, it's garbage.

and Mike

for someone who likes the game as exciting as you do, do realize that zone limits all that high flying up-tempo slashing goodness
True, it does, but the more I see this team play, the more I realize how hopeless our perimeter guys are in one-on-ones against top perimeter players in the league. Bosh, JO and Bargnani are all good help defenders and yet didn't you see what Wade did to them penetrating off the dribble? Zone would have slowed him down somewhat.

As far as the excitement is concerned - look at the old Suns who were running the ball down the defenders' throats off a made basket by the other team. That's excitement - a fast break, quick outlet pass or crossing the half-court in 1-2 long ones to cut defenders off and get the numbers on offence. Once it's in a half-court... well... you know... meh...
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