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-   -   "Gimmick defenses" (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/gimmick-defenses-4433.html)

MikeToronto 11-20-2008 04:48 PM

"Gimmick defenses"
 
Quote:

Count Udonis Haslem as an old school kind of player that doesn't like the kind of gimmick defenses that coaches like Don Nelson utilize.

"It gets old after a while," Haslem said. "Basketball is supposed to be 5-on-5. People mix all those junk defenses. To me, I feel like that's kind of cowardly. Just play ball."
Could someone please, please explain to me what he means by that? I mean, it looks like English, but I just can't penetrate his meaning...

'trane 11-20-2008 04:51 PM

i think it means "i have a one-dimensional game, and zone defenses are tricky for me to handle, so i wish teams would just play me straight-up so i can understand what i'm facing"

MikeToronto 11-20-2008 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'trane (Post 78235)
i think it means "i have a one-dimensional game, and zone defenses are tricky for me to handle, so i wish teams would just play me straight-up so i can understand what i'm facing"

In other words - "I am a moron, please hold me back for a year" ? ;)

'trane 11-20-2008 04:54 PM

or perhaps "treat me gently, i don't like big suprises..."

DVS 11-20-2008 04:59 PM

That quote just disrespected a Hall of Famer like Jim Beohiem who lived off zone defenses. Personally I love a team that can switch up defenses at any give time. Granted in the NBA zone's don't work most of the time but they can serve a purpose.

Too bad The Raptors personell and coaching staff can't utilize "gimmick" defenses at all

Acie 11-20-2008 05:35 PM

I'm pretty sure I saw the Raps playing zone last night and before that.

Yup.

Gurk 11-20-2008 05:37 PM

That and man toman is the only defensive play Sam has.:dead:

bjjs 11-20-2008 06:05 PM

Complaining about them makes Udonis sound like a biznitch (Unless he's talking about his own team, then I respect what he's saying), but relying on gimmick defenses is a definite sign of weakness. Once you get down to the last 8 teams, if your man2man isn't good enough, gimmick defenses aren't going to help you one bit. Not in the NBA.

insight_tor 11-20-2008 07:31 PM

Maybe Udonis thinks that the beauty of game is destroyed by some strategies that Don Nelson is using. Is something like "Hack a Shaq" strategy that Spurs applied against Suns which is kind of cowardly.

Gurk 11-20-2008 07:39 PM

Cowardly but funny

Wiseguy 11-20-2008 08:58 PM

'gimmick' and 'junk' defences refer to a type of zone defence that a team uses when it cant contain the opposing team's personel in man to man. defences like box-and-one and triangle-and-two. Usually involve containning the top players and force role players to step up.

dfunkie1 11-20-2008 09:43 PM

i applaud haslem. i hated that the nba incorporated zone and whatever variation teams are using. i think it's the greatest contributor to the league being full of pansies who'd rather be a weak-side defender than being able to contain their own man. time after time, these type of players turn out to be frauds. right ben wallace!

Ugo Ferst 11-20-2008 10:44 PM

Old school man to man is the way true teams own you up :P

moremilk 11-21-2008 12:14 AM

apparently gsw is also doing a lot of hand checking and holding, at least that's what I heard on TV last year, I don't follow them so I've only seen a handful of games. It's a tactic Don Nelson likes to employ, hoping that the referees get tired of calling foul on every possesion like they could. Usually he waits to see how the refs adapt, if they don'y become more lenient, he backs down.

XiaominWu 11-21-2008 12:26 AM

Cowardly?

Shit, is it also cowardly to design offensive plays that take advantage of defensive weaknesses? Shouldn't you just attack straight up, man on man? Huh? None of this pick and roll bullshit trickery!

TORaptor4Ever 11-21-2008 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XiaominWu (Post 78481)
Cowardly?

Shit, is it also cowardly to design offensive plays that take advantage of defensive weaknesses? Shouldn't you just attack straight up, man on man? Huh? None of this pick and roll bullshit trickery!

Lol.... Wu I heart u. :yeah:

Basketball is a TEAM game... on both sides of the ball. And that's the way that it should be played IMO. Without apologies.

MikeToronto 11-21-2008 12:17 PM

OMG, this thread is so ripe with pseudo macho bullshit I am wearing a gas mask from now on. ;) Thanks, Funk, great input, now don your ancestral armor and go fight a helicopter one-on-one. You can always pretend it's a dragon. ;)

Best offensive wing players in this league cannot be contained one-on-one. Not by anyone, and most certainly not by anyone on our team. Should the Raptors commit collective suicide to satisfy the purists?

dfunkie1 11-21-2008 12:24 PM

help defense still exists in man-to-man situations....

the only thing is really appreciate about zone is that it somewhat limits iso's. past that, it's garbage.

and Mike

for someone who likes the game as exciting as you do, do realize that zone limits all that high flying up-tempo slashing goodness ;)

MikeToronto 11-21-2008 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackson Filth (Post 78718)
help defense still exists in man-to-man situations....

the only thing is really appreciate about zone is that it somewhat limits iso's. past that, it's garbage.

and Mike

for someone who likes the game as exciting as you do, do realize that zone limits all that high flying up-tempo slashing goodness ;)

True, it does, but the more I see this team play, the more I realize how hopeless our perimeter guys are in one-on-ones against top perimeter players in the league. Bosh, JO and Bargnani are all good help defenders and yet didn't you see what Wade did to them penetrating off the dribble? Zone would have slowed him down somewhat.

As far as the excitement is concerned - look at the old Suns who were running the ball down the defenders' throats off a made basket by the other team. That's excitement - a fast break, quick outlet pass or crossing the half-court in 1-2 long ones to cut defenders off and get the numbers on offence. Once it's in a half-court... well... you know... meh...


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