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-   -   Gift from Detroit. (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/gift-detroit-18862.html)

Ammo 01-10-2011 07:37 PM

Gift from Detroit.
 
The Pistons are giving us a gift in the form of 3 lessons we can take going forward.


1) Even if you do not have any bonafide superstars, you can become a contender if you keep them together, teach them right and employ a system that everyone buys into.

2) At the point when you know your big run is over, you can't hold onto all of the key guys until their value diminishes.

3) Putting bandaids on your busted team by signing players that their old teams were willing to let walk away is pointless. Instead of re-stocking, they tried to save face and become a long term 8th to 12th team in the east.
tisk-tisk!

INSIDER 01-10-2011 07:51 PM

you forgot; dont spend all of your off season money on one dimensional players.

fancylad 01-10-2011 08:28 PM

It's strange that they had points 1 and 2 down, yet totally went the way of point 3. For years i thought Det was a well managed and built team. The team, the coach(es), the system... man it was all there. This is all what makes the change in direction so baffling.

I've always thought the Raptors were never in the position to expect to have long term success with the prototypical NBA superstar type. It's just not going to fly here for reasons that we've become well used to over the years. We really HAVE to take a team approach much like the Pistons did a few years ago. It seems like pretty much the only way.

Ammo 01-10-2011 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fancylad (Post 491145)
It's strange that they had points 1 and 2 down, yet totally went the way of point 3. For years i thought Det was a well managed and built team. The team, the coach(es), the system... man it was all there. This is all what makes the change in direction so baffling.
I've always thought the Raptors were never in the position to expect to have long term success with the prototypical NBA superstar type. It's just not going to fly here for reasons that we've become well used to over the years. We really HAVE to take a team approach much like the Pistons did a few years ago. It seems like pretty much the only way.

Partly opinion, but I've said before that it is not so baffling. Joe Dumars should be fired. It's clear that when John Hammond was there, they did not have bad decisions run amock. As soon as he left, they became clueless. Joe Dumars is out there throwing darts in the dark.

Ex2k 01-10-2011 10:56 PM

It went down hill when they pulled the trigger on Iverson for Billups...

I cant remember why they did that anyway? Were they starting to play bad?

jakapono24 01-11-2011 01:49 AM

they started that season with 3 wins and no losses, but they hadnt been able to make it the finals for 3 years, so they thought that since billups, who was struggling percentage wise in the 3 games, was getting older they'd get a player with more offensive ability. They also thought Stuckey would be able to be a great match with Iverson. It was seen as a good move at the time because they sorely needed more scoring at the beginning, because Sheed looked awful and Rip was getting older. Didn't work out because Iverson didn't play within the team concept...but it was a really interesting time back then!

fancylad 01-11-2011 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ammo (Post 491165)
Partly opinion, but I've said before that it is not so baffling. Joe Dumars should be fired. It's clear that when John Hammond was there, they did not have bad decisions run amock. As soon as he left, they became clueless. Joe Dumars is out there throwing darts in the dark.

That's giving a lot of credit to an assistant GM (saying it was all Hammond). Dumars has been at the top since before the team was contending and winning if i'm not mistaken, so he was obviously a big part of the team's success and he deserves credit for those strong Piston teams. That said, I don't doubt that there's some truth to what you are saying.

J-Roc 01-11-2011 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakapono24 (Post 491237)
they started that season with 3 wins and no losses, but they hadnt been able to make it the finals for 3 years, so they thought that since billups, who was struggling percentage wise in the 3 games, was getting older they'd get a player with more offensive ability. They also thought Stuckey would be able to be a great match with Iverson. It was seen as a good move at the time because they sorely needed more scoring at the beginning, because Sheed looked awful and Rip was getting older. Didn't work out because Iverson didn't play within the team concept...but it was a really interesting time back then!

I think the whole league scratched their collective heads when that Iverson move was made. It made as much sense as when the Grizzlies got Iverson.

Claudius 01-11-2011 12:09 PM

I'd argue that had Billups played in a larger market he would've been marketed as a superstar.

Being a superstar, I'd say is 90% market driven and 10% skill driven.

Plus, wasn't there a time, when Ben, Billups, Rip and Prince and I think Sheed were all all-stars at the same time? You could've made an argument that at one time those guys were all top 5 at their position at the same time.

I don't think I'm ever going to see that again in the near future.

b55bgc 01-11-2011 12:27 PM

An arguement can be made that all those guys were allstars for sure.

MikeToronto 01-11-2011 12:46 PM

When they drafted Darko... well... to me it was the first warning ;)

carp 01-11-2011 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeToronto (Post 491337)
When they drafted Darko... well... to me it was the first warning ;)

dude could be an allstar by next year... lol He's not that bad as a pick.... they just chose to bury him, not paying attention that he was a kid that needed to be nurtured

halphbreedballer 01-11-2011 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 491372)
dude could be an allstar by next year... lol He's not that bad as a pick.... they just chose to bury him, not paying attention that he was a kid that needed to be nurtured

He's really bad in comparison to who was in his draft class.

carp 01-11-2011 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halphbreedballer (Post 491393)
He's really bad in comparison to who was in his draft class.

tj ford?

oh right, carmelo, wade, lbj and kaman.

MikeToronto 01-11-2011 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 491397)
tj ford?

oh right, carmelo, wade, lbj and kaman.

He was picked 2nd, before Anthony, Bosh and Wade.

carp 01-11-2011 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeToronto (Post 491412)
He was picked 2nd, before Anthony, Bosh and Wade.

as I said... before Wade, Carmelo, Kaman and Ford.


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