Game Thread: Toronto Raptors 102 - Indiana Pacers 98 (F) - Page 3
Old 02-26-2008, 07:46 AM   #41 (permalink)
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wow. jose did stink it up last night. I'm not that mad or worried though as he was playing out of his mind for so much of the season though.

TJ on the other hand is really stepping it up. he has found his jumper and his passes are nice and crafty too. I like!

Kind of dissapointed in Moon's recent offensive games. He's shooting way too much from outside. The times he penetrated he got the results. stop settling!

All in all, an ugly game, but a hard earned W.

Props to Delfino, Parker and TJ. Kapono as great in the first half, but coaching has to get him more threes.

oh, and the reffing was turrible. In the Raptors favour, but turrible.
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:16 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Moon seems to actually be getting dumber recently.
i dunno if its too much confidence or that he's feeling comfortable, but he's doing things out there that he should not be doing.
there was a possesion last night where he had the ball on the baseline behind the 3pt line, and granger was in his face, he looked up, kinda jiggled his pivot foot 2 or 3 times, pumped, held the ball for like 4 seconds, then jacked up a shot.
needless to say Sam benched him right away afterwards.
but i was like WTF... why the hell would he even try that?
he's trying to do wayyyy to much out there, its getting annoying.
he better stick with his bread and butter - take it to the rim, do the garbage things and bang the glass. please stop trying to do too much, dummy.
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:26 AM   #43 (permalink)
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there was a possesion last night where he had the ball on the baseline behind the 3pt line, and granger was in his face, he looked up, kinda jiggled his pivot foot 2 or 3 times, pumped, held the ball for like 4 seconds, then jacked up a shot.
.
Ya.. i saw that too and it frustrated me. He should have just really quickly tried to beat his man after that first pump fake. You could see Granger bite on it a little bit. Jamario should have just blazed around him and taken it to the rim strong.

but then to just hiost up a shoot like that..why? if you're not comfortable (which he wasn't) he should have just passed it off.

frustrating.
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:44 AM   #44 (permalink)
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its worse because he's NOT a shooter!!!!!
i mean if parker, kapono or delfino did that, i'd be peeved but wouldnt care so much... but Moon??? c'mon man!!!! you've hit probably 10 three's all year.... why would he try that... i really dont even think anyone on the team would be that stupid to do that. so why??? arrrggg... frustrating!
i was so happy to see sam slap his ass on the bench right away.
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Old 02-26-2008, 01:05 PM   #45 (permalink)
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wow. jose did stink it up last night. I'm not that mad or worried though as he was playing out of his mind for so much of the season though.

TJ on the other hand is really stepping it up. he has found his jumper and his passes are nice and crafty too. I like!
So, if we see more of these performances from Jose more often, is it time we revisit the thought of giving back Ford his starting job again?
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Old 02-26-2008, 01:14 PM   #46 (permalink)
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So, if we see more of these performances from Jose more often, is it time we revisit the thought of giving back Ford his starting job again?
no! No way!

He'd really have to drop off significantly for that thought to be entertained.
Chalk this poor performance up as a blip on the radar.
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Old 02-26-2008, 01:27 PM   #47 (permalink)
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no! No way!

He'd really have to drop off significantly for that thought to be entertained.
Chalk this poor performance up as a blip on the radar.
You know my feelings on who should be starting and when...so i'll leave them and answer your question. I would say yes, if Jose starts sucking on a more regular basis and Ford continues to get back to a high level of effectiveness as he's shown in the past two games .... TJ should get his starting job back. Why wouldn't you put someone in who'se playing better more often?

I dont' think we have to worry about Jose having lots of stinkers like last night... he seems too consistant for that. I do wonder though... he started to blossom when TJ was out and there was no credible threat to his minutes...that's the first time he hasn't had someone better than him ready to take minutes away... i wonder if the pressure of having TJ back weighs on him? Just throwing it out there... but he looked to be pressing the past two games. I hope that's not it...and it's just a blip.
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Old 02-26-2008, 01:35 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I agree with you SWAN about the whole starting thing.. If Jose plays like that regularilly, then of course Sam will have to make the change, but you can book that Jose's next game will be stellar.

But i do think you're reading too much into why Jose had a bad night. I just see it as second game of a back to back, and more importantly, it's just one bad game. I really don't think Jose plays with all that stuff in the back of his head.

I wouldn't say he was pressing against NY though. I thought he played quite well.

and i don't know if he was "pressing" per se against Indy. He just looked flat out there. Like he had lost some intensity. Everyone has a bad game now and then.
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Old 02-26-2008, 01:37 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I agree with you SWAN about the whole starting thing.. If Jose plays like that regularilly, then of course Sam will have to make the change, but you can book that Jose's next game will be stellar.

But i do think you're reading too much into why Jose had a bad night. I just see it as second game of a back to back, and more importantly, it's just one bad game. I really don't think Jose plays with all that stuff in the back of his head.

I wouldn't say he was pressing against NY though. I thought he played quite well.

and i don't know if he was "pressing" per se against Indy. He just looked flat out there. Like he had lost some intensity. Everyone has a bad game now and then.

Yeah it was just an interesting discussion point i was raising. I dont' really feel that's going to be an issue.
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Old 02-26-2008, 01:50 PM   #50 (permalink)
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You know my feelings on who should be starting and when...so i'll leave them and answer your question. I would say yes, if Jose starts sucking on a more regular basis and Ford continues to get back to a high level of effectiveness as he's shown in the past two games .... TJ should get his starting job back. Why wouldn't you put someone in who'se playing better more often?

I dont' think we have to worry about Jose having lots of stinkers like last night... he seems too consistant for that. I do wonder though... he started to blossom when TJ was out and there was no credible threat to his minutes...that's the first time he hasn't had someone better than him ready to take minutes away... i wonder if the pressure of having TJ back weighs on him? Just throwing it out there... but he looked to be pressing the past two games. I hope that's not it...and it's just a blip.
No, I think the injustice of having to take the back seat to an inferior player, and knowing it won't change, is more the issue.

Pro sports suck.
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:02 PM   #51 (permalink)
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the good thing about this season is that the staff can always use the excuse 'well TJ got injured and is still working his way back up' as the reason why jose will start and get the majority of the minutes.
but what happens next year? what excuse will they have when ford is 100%?
both are legitimate and bonafide starters in this league.
issues are bound to arise sometime...
i just dont know how long we can go with 'going with the hot hand' approach.

jose earned his spot here this season, but having TJ outplay him last night will get the media and critics out... its going to be a TJ vs Jose thing for ever... and its going to be rough on the both of them.
somethings gotta give.
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:28 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Did Tj outplay him?

I mean, if you look at how we all like this team to run, did he do a good job rnning that squad?

Or was Tj just on, and taking advantage of a horrible team?

I mean he can do that, he can take over for periods, but is that what you want for the team when you look at it from a building and systemic progressional viewpoint???

I dunno man.

I felt horrible watching that game.
I watche dit with another guy I know who played in the CIAU, he knows his shit, he was cringing too. I like Tj. but that was no shining Toronto moment.
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:34 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Did Tj outplay him?

I mean, if you look at how we all like this team to run, did he do a good job rnning that squad?

Or was Tj just on, and taking advantage of a horrible team?

I mean he can do that, he can take over for periods, but is that what you want for the team when you look at it from a building and systemic progressional viewpoint???

I dunno man.

I felt horrible watching that game.
I watche dit with another guy I know who played in the CIAU, he knows his shit, he was cringing too. I like Tj. but that was no shining Toronto moment.

He did a good job of running the squad against a horrible team, but one that was playing tough and despite some late game turnovers by Bosh and Delfino among others still pulled out the win. It was an ugly game but not as ugly as losing to seattle, philly, washington without butler and arenas, clippers and new york.
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:55 PM   #54 (permalink)
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i am on the Jose wagon, but theres no way we win that game last night if TJ wasnt there...
TJ didnt play bad, its just that the whole team was horrible.
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Old 02-26-2008, 03:02 PM   #55 (permalink)
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oK this conversation has gotten out of hand.

I understand critisizing a player when he warrants it. In the past TJ has played too feverishly and tried to do too much on his own. But i don't like living in the past and holding stuff against someone after the fact.

In last night's game (and the NY game for that matter), TJ played very much within the team and WASN'T playing selfish or out of control or anything like that. He played great (sure he took an ill-advised shot or so - but fuck EVERYONE does on a regular basis), distributed the ball well, and ran the offense well.

At this point he doesn't deserve this criticism based on the Indiana game - and this is what this thread is talking about.
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Old 02-26-2008, 03:20 PM   #56 (permalink)
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i have yet to criticize anyone. I said this team is goingno where with tj playing like that.
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Old 02-26-2008, 04:34 PM   #57 (permalink)
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oK this conversation has gotten out of hand.

I understand critisizing a player when he warrants it. In the past TJ has played too feverishly and tried to do too much on his own. But i don't like living in the past and holding stuff against someone after the fact.

In last night's game (and the NY game for that matter), TJ played very much within the team and WASN'T playing selfish or out of control or anything like that. He played great (sure he took an ill-advised shot or so - but fuck EVERYONE does on a regular basis), distributed the ball well, and ran the offense well.

At this point he doesn't deserve this criticism based on the Indiana game - and this is what this thread is talking about.
Well, TJ in my opinion did play selfish however he was in control. Why I say in control it's because his game his score first and pass second. That the beauty of having both guards.If Jose has a weakness its his hunger to score alittle more. Teams lately have been trying to take the ball out of Joses hands by double teaming him up high while he trys to set up the half court offence. Jose has the speed and the smarts to break it down however he has for some reason decided just to move the ball as soon as the double team comes in therefore taking Jose out of the play.Instead of trying to push the ball into the heart of the floor he just moved it quickly to the open man. This simple pass just made Jose look out of place. This tactic prevented him from getting him assists because the ball moved and unlike in hockey you don't get that second assist. The funny part in that game was any time he gave a teammate a good look they missed their shot. TJ comes in and his style is to drive or shoot right away thus preventing teams trying to double team him. Both players have 2 completely differant styles and as most already know I believe that overall Joses style when he puses the ball will make our players better especially chris bosh.TJ likes to shoot we saw it in the knick game. I was at that game and the fans around joked about TJ shooting all the time.He took 11 shots in 19 mins and in the 4th quarter the fans around were laughing and saying its a one man team playing against 5 on the floor.In the pacer game TJ took 15 shots in 26 mins the most on the team. The bigest differance in these 2 is that TJ wants to be the star and Jose wants the team to be the star.You will find as we move forward that Jose will not look as dominate with fewer minutes, those late important shots that he has demonstated he can make will not happen because he will not be on the floor.In conclusion in the last 2 games TJ FORD has played 45 mins and taken 26 shots and Jose Calderon has played 52 minutes and has taken a whopping 11 shots. If Jose does not push and drive in is reduced minutes role with TJ back he will look out of place once again.
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Old 02-26-2008, 10:17 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Highlights courtesy of bigmac(rexdale)ghetto again from RealGM & Hoopsfanforum.net :

Highlights:
Raptors vs Pacers Feb 25 2008 1st Quarter Highlights
Raptors vs Pacers Feb 25 2008 2nd Quarter Highlights
Raptors vs Pacers Feb 25 2008 3rd Quarter Highlights
Raptors vs Pacers Feb 25 2008 4th Quarter Highlights
Game in a Flash
Carlos Delfino Highlights
Chris Bosh Highlights
TJ Ford Highlights
Get back on the bench Jamario
Get back on the bench Jamario v2

Post Game:
Anthony Parker Post Game
Carlos Delfino Post Game
Jim O'Brien Post Game
Jose Calderon Post Game[/quote]
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