GAME THREAD FINAL: New York Knicks 90 - Toronto Raptors 87 - Page 37
Old 02-15-2012, 03:30 PM   #721 (permalink)
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You lose Mike...#1 was a test question

Disagreeing with #1 exposes you as either

a) having just a casual fan's knowledge on the sport of basketball

or

b) A Jose fanatic who can't believe he can do wrong.

Nothing wrong with either.

It's a fact, it was horrible defense. Can't disagree with fact.
And if Jose would have played up on Lin and gotten beaten off the dribble resulting in Lin FTs or a dish off for a dunk?

You could have easily blamed Jose in that situation as well.

Little bit of hindsight going on. TBH though, Jose shouldn't have been guarding Lin on the last shot at all. I probably would have put Barbosa on him.
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Old 02-15-2012, 03:33 PM   #722 (permalink)
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And if Jose would have played up on Lin and gotten beaten off the dribble resulting in Lin FTs or a dish off for a dunk?
Then he can go home knowing he put forth an effort, rather then with his tail between his legs.

Last edited by bjjs; 02-15-2012 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 02-15-2012, 03:39 PM   #723 (permalink)
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Then he can go home knowing he put forth an effort, rather then with his tail between his legs.
Sorry... but I don't agree at all.

You have to play the percentages and force players into their perceived "weakness".

That's why you make guys like Bonner drive... and why you make guys like Rondo shoot.

Sometimes you just get beat by a great shot from a hot player. That's what happened last night.
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Old 02-15-2012, 03:42 PM   #724 (permalink)
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Sorry... but I don't agree at all.

You have to play the percentages and force players into their perceived "weakness".

That's why you make guys like Bonner drive... and why you make guys like Rondo shoot.

Sometimes you just get beat by a great shot from a hot player. That's what happened last night.
So you don't contest hot players with the game on the line? Give them 4 feet of space...

Why can't you admit that Jose played one possession of bad defense, that's weird.

And that wasn't really a great shot....it was just a wide open shot.

Last edited by bjjs; 02-15-2012 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:06 PM   #725 (permalink)
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So you don't contest hot players with the game on the line? Give them 4 feet of space...

Why can't you admit that Jose played one possession of bad defense, that's weird.

And that wasn't really a great shot....it was just a wide open shot.
OK, so you'd have preferred for Jose to stay closer to contest the possible shot - strategy that would've surely resulted in a drive - just because you somehow consider this a "brave" behaviour as opposed to the "cowardly" sagging off to prevent the drive. No problem, your call. Promise me one thing, though - stop "exposing" others on basketball knowledge based on pure emotions.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:22 PM   #726 (permalink)
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Lin made a great, deep, three with two hands in his face, what the fuck man.... you guys are being ridiculous.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:25 PM   #727 (permalink)
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Bjjs, you believe you've exposed me as someone who doesn't know basketball. OK, fine, you got me.

Does Dwayne Casey know basketball?

Post-Game Playlist - Feb. 14, 2012 | THE OFFICIAL SITE OF THE TORONTO RAPTORS

Click on Casey's video, ignore the annoying whooping in the background and listen to what he says around 50 seconds in.

Believe it or not, I went to look for "comments from a recognized authority" after all the previous messages have been posted.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:31 PM   #728 (permalink)
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No worries guys, I thought it was a bad play, I can see how a different perspective on the game of basketball might see it differently.

I wonder if Jose and Casey would play the same situation again in a similar fashion.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:37 PM   #729 (permalink)
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No worries guys, I thought it was a bad play, I can see how a different perspective on the game of basketball might see it differently.

I wonder if Jose and Casey would play the same situation again in a similar fashion.
If I were Casey, I would've doubled the ball immediately, taking my chances with Lin making a pass to an open teammate. I don't think switching Barbosa over to Lin would've helped all that much.

Borrowing Kobe, Wade or LeBron for that one play could've worked.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:42 PM   #730 (permalink)
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No worries guys, I thought it was a bad play, I can see how a different perspective on the game of basketball might see it differently.

I wonder if Jose and Casey would play the same situation again in a similar fashion.
They would....
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:44 PM   #731 (permalink)
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Also, had DD been better defensively...

A longer, more athletic defender could have done the same thing Jose has done AND manage to bother the shot much more than what Jose ended up with (see Kobe, Wade, LeBron comment above).

But it was clear that Jose was playing Lin to prevent the drive.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:58 PM   #732 (permalink)
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The problem with that isn't the fans (yes, our fans will still show).... it's the players themselves.

If you tank too hard and it seems like you aren't even TRYING to win you'll turn players off and they'll look to get out of there ASAP. Also makes them develop bad habits that are tough to shake.
BC will find a way to sugarcoat everything.

Babcock 05 - "Honestly, I don't think we will be very good this year"
BC - "This year is about development, not wins."

Or unless you want us to stick with Jose as our starting PG and permanently capture the 10th seed every year.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:58 PM   #733 (permalink)
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you have to play the percentages. Theoretically speaking... if Jose were the best defender in the league he might have been able to just shut Lin down. That said Lin has tron up the league, and watching him dismantle Kobe when he tried to take the shot away from him last week will show you what would have happened there.

Kid made a great shot. They played the percentages and NY beat the percentages. It's a loss. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Old 02-15-2012, 04:59 PM   #734 (permalink)
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Or unless you want us to stick with Jose as our starting PG and permanently capture the 10th seed every year.
You and others seem to think that Jose is tradeable to a contending team. Care to explain how this goes with the statement above?
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:04 PM   #735 (permalink)
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You and others seem to think that Jose is tradeable to a contending team. Care to explain how this goes with the statement above?
We don't have enough talent right now and with Jose's value really high we have a chance to get more talent (from trade + extra tanking)?
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:06 PM   #736 (permalink)
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you have to play the percentages. Theoretically speaking... if Jose were the best defender in the league he might have been able to just shut Lin down. That said Lin has tron up the league, and watching him dismantle Kobe when he tried to take the shot away from him last week will show you what would have happened there.

Kid made a great shot. They played the percentages and NY beat the percentages. It's a loss. Nothing more, nothing less.
You play the percentages in poker and roulette as well. It's definitely not a choice that you have to make. Personally I like trying to have some control over my own fate rather then leaving it 100% in my opponents hand.

That's how I look at it.:Peace:
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:06 PM   #737 (permalink)
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No worries guys, I thought it was a bad play, I can see how a different perspective on the game of basketball might see it differently.

I wonder if Jose and Casey would play the same situation again in a similar fashion.
To be perfectly honest this is where having a guy like Weems would have probably benefitted us. Tall. Long. Athletic. Quick. That was the role that he played for us in his 1st season here.... a guy who could step out and guard those quick PGs. We're still trying to find another player like that.... N.Y.'s found theirs in Shumpert (Fields is pretty good too).

I wonder how JJ would have done on Lin.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:11 PM   #738 (permalink)
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We don't have enough talent right now and with Jose's value really high we have a chance to get more talent (from trade + extra tanking)?
We are going to get some extra talent in Jonas and a lottery pick regardless. What's being discussed is whether trading Jose and making us even worse is going to improve the talent we'd be getting significantly enough to piss off the fans.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:16 PM   #739 (permalink)
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You play the percentages in poker and roulette as well. It's definitely not a choice that you have to make. Personally I like trying to have some control over my own fate rather then leaving it 100% in my opponents hand.

That's how I look at it.:Peace:
You should play chess, then.

In basketball, unless your opponent is clearly inferior, offence always has an edge over defense. Hence the percentages.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:16 PM   #740 (permalink)
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We are going to get some extra talent in Jonas and a lottery pick regardless. What's being discussed is whether trading Jose and making us even worse is going to improve the talent we'd be getting significantly enough to piss off the fans.
Jose's value is high right now. If we don't trade him, we might not get the same return next year when he gets injured, etc. Also he's expressed interest in playing for a contender this season so why not make his wish come true if you were a die-hard Jose fan. (plus he's a free agent next year, if we don't trade him we lose him for nothing)

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piss off the fans.
Read post on prev page about fan interest.
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