Free Derozan
Old 01-07-2010, 12:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Enough with the rookie treatment. If he's the right man to start the games, then he's the right man to finish the games.

Should he have a quicker hook then the other starters when he isn't performing well, of course.

But he should still be given the opportunity to see games through until the end.

Last night he was fantastic, it was just silly seeing Weems, and Belli, and the Jack/Jose combo all on the floor at some point during crunch time and never Derozan.

I'm not a fan of bringing somebody along slowly unless their is clear reason for it that stems from their play, and with Derozan, I havn't seen any reason for it. He has incredible defensive instincts, and is one of the best team defenders on the squad.

Not to mention that Belli and Weems have hardly been spectacular enough to be the bench wing that finishes every game a la Ginobli.
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I don't know...i'm pretty happy with DD's burn. When he's on he gets extended but I really think Weems is playing well enough to get some minutes and so is Bellinelli. I'm hoping DD makes Weems completely redundant next year but this year while he's inconsistant I like this approach and applaud Triano for doing it. I also don't agree with the 'incredible defensive instincts' comment. I see potential, but ther'es nothing incredible about his defense.
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:49 PM   #3 (permalink)
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the Calderon jack combo has to stop
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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He's a rookie that has at times been incionsistent (to be expected) and is playing 20-25 minutes per game. I'm fine with that at this point.
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I don't know...i'm pretty happy with DD's burn. When he's on he gets extended but I really think Weems is playing well enough to get some minutes and so is Bellinelli. I'm hoping DD makes Weems completely redundant next year but this year while he's inconsistant I like this approach and applaud Triano for doing it. I also don't agree with the 'incredible defensive instincts' comment. I see potential, but ther'es nothing incredible about his defense.
It comes natural to him, he sees a lot going on out on the court. Last night he got a couple deflected passes noticing Howard getting some deep position and giving some quick help.

He gets burned man2man in a bunch of games like having to run down Ray Allen coming off a series of screens, but that's expected. Guarding the wing position in the NBA is a huge step up from guarding it in college. It takes a lot of repetition.

But as far as team defensive fundamentals, I would say his defensive instincts, as far as making split-second reads are second-to-none on the Raps.
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
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With you all the way on this man...

The Jack/Jose combo is a farce - Triano rarely goes to it in games and even then it's far from our best lineup. What's the rationale behind having three ballhandlers on the floor at once?

I digress. DeRozan's being royally screwed by the coaching staff. On offense he's been our best wing player next to Turk and on defense he may actually be our top wing defender overall. Not necessarily the greatest man-to-man guard but like you said a very good team defender and he's got long arms that have definitely disrupted passing lanes.

A penny for Jay's thoughts, though. What's the reasoning behind it? I get having rotations but as a coach you have to ride the hot hand whether "the rotation" tells you to give him five minutes or fifteen. Jay's been saying he'd reward guys that worked hard on defense and rebounded, where's DeMar's applesauce?
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I'd like to see DD get more minutes as well, he barely cracks 20mins a game. I'd like to see make 24+ from him a night.

He does get extended minutes when he's playing well, but at the max he'll play up to the end of the first and 3rd quarters before giving way to the reserves. so thats a max of 24 a game..
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
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And "bringing him along slowly" could have negative effects. Demar could potentially put to much internal pressure on himself to perform in crunch time once he finally gets a chance to do so.

Triano is making an issue out of it, when their really should be no issue. You play the best during the game at the two spot, you get the opportunity to finish the game at the two spot, regardless of how many years you've been in the league.

Without the solid veteran two-guard, it should be that simple.

It's slightly different at the other positions imo. Bosh, Turk will always be on the floor. Bargnani would have to be a zombie (it does happen) for Amir or Reggie or Rasho to finish a game out at his spot. Jack should get the opportunity to finish most games out, with Jose getting his chances when hes obviously been the better pg in that game.

On rare occasions when both pgs are playing well, and you're not giving up a defensive mismatch, I can understand Jose and Jack finishing a game.
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:26 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Its better than us bringing him along like Jarryd Bayless or many other rookies by just letting him play when its a blowout. Demar gets to play the best shooting guards in the league right away instead of playing summer league players. But I do agree with you, when he is playing well he should get more minutes instead of just starting the first and third quarters.
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:32 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I'd rather have him cutting his teeth with our bench against bench players and being a go-to guy on offense. How much benefit does he really get from being the fifth option on the floor, whether he's being guarded by Kobe Bryant or not?
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:41 PM   #11 (permalink)
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With you all the way on this man...

The Jack/Jose combo is a farce - Triano rarely goes to it in games and even then it's far from our best lineup. What's the rationale behind having three ballhandlers on the floor at once?

I digress. DeRozan's being royally screwed by the coaching staff. On offense he's been our best wing player next to Turk and on defense he may actually be our top wing defender overall. Not necessarily the greatest man-to-man guard but like you said a very good team defender and he's got long arms that have definitely disrupted passing lanes.

A penny for Jay's thoughts, though. What's the reasoning behind it? I get having rotations but as a coach you have to ride the hot hand whether "the rotation" tells you to give him five minutes or fifteen. Jay's been saying he'd reward guys that worked hard on defense and rebounded, where's DeMar's applesauce?
I don't agree with that statement at all. Derozan could be brought along like the majority of rookies...coming off the bench with a quick hook if he makes many mistakes. Instead he gets good minutes every game by being a starter. I don't see anything wrong with having some extra experience on the floor to end close games and would not say that he is getting screwed by the coaches by any stretch of the imagination.
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I'd rather have him cutting his teeth with our bench against bench players and being a go-to guy on offense. How much benefit does he really get from being the fifth option on the floor, whether he's being guarded by Kobe Bryant or not?
I see both sides. I agree he's looked great in limited garbage time minutes, but does he look shaken, rattled or otherwise unconfident in general? I think the approach to groom him slowly and get him ready for the starter calibre guys is working pretty well. He's show composure and that he can make adjustments. I dont' mind this approach... but then i would mind the other either
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:45 PM   #13 (permalink)
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You guys are nuts. Its evident that this guy is not at the level that he can start closing out games. Weems has definitely been playing better then the guy on a regular basis.

You guys always do this crap. Derozen has a good game and its "free derozen time". Lets wait and see. When this kid can put together 5+ games of solid production then you can start the free derozen crap, until then he will get his 20 min a game.

He doesn't do much except score. He barely rebounds and he does not assist. This kid has only had 8 games with more then 10 points. Lets not get too excited yet.

And do you really want to leave the closing out of games to a rookie? All we need is for him to make a few rookie mistakes, a turnover, bad shot and it could cost us a game...and at this point, we cant afford to loose a singe game because we needed the rookie to closeout the game which he would do inconsistently at best
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:51 PM   #14 (permalink)
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He's played well enough to earn the chance to at least play through his mistakes, which he hasn't gotten the chance to do. I can't even say he makes a lot of mistakes, his basketball sense is very good for a rook, which makes the situation all the more perplexing.

At this point Belinelli and Weems have not shown any more than DeMar on either offense or defense but they're still being subbed in at important points in the game. DeMar's got young legs, it's not like Triano is benching him on account of fatigue.

Let him work through some tense moments, feel the pressure of the waning moments of the game.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:01 PM   #15 (permalink)
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He's played well enough to earn the chance to at least play through his mistakes, which he hasn't gotten the chance to do. I can't even say he makes a lot of mistakes, his basketball sense is very good for a rook, which makes the situation all the more perplexing.

At this point Belinelli and Weems have not shown any more than DeMar on either offense or defense but they're still being subbed in at important points in the game. DeMar's got young legs, it's not like Triano is benching him on account of fatigue.

Let him work through some tense moments, feel the pressure of the waning moments of the game.
Actually.... they have.

Bellinelli can handle the ball like a PG and has incredible court vision. He also plays with a bit of a chip and has 3pt range.

Weems is probably our best defender on the wing other than Banks. He has the size, quickness and smarts to be competitive against the Allens and Kobes and Wades of the league. His shot has been off lately... but he still contributes a lot to the team when he's on the floor.

DD is a nice, young player..... but let's not get out of hand here. He had a very good game yesterday but he's still a rook and is learning on the go. In crunch time he's also going to be subject to "rookie calls"... and when you're guarding the 2-spot you DON'T want to have to deal with that... it's already bad enough with Bargs.

One guy who I could really do without at this point though is Wright. He just seems redundant.

Also... you have to remember that Weems and Belli were a big part of the recent success that we've enjoyed... have to remember that.

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Old 01-07-2010, 02:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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He's played well enough to earn the chance to at least play through his mistakes, which he hasn't gotten the chance to do. I can't even say he makes a lot of mistakes, his basketball sense is very good for a rook, which makes the situation all the more perplexing.

At this point Belinelli and Weems have not shown any more than DeMar on either offense or defense but they're still being subbed in at important points in the game. DeMar's got young legs, it's not like Triano is benching him on account of fatigue.

Let him work through some tense moments, feel the pressure of the waning moments of the game.

Weems has shown a lot more then derozen. You guys are getting this all twisted. Derozen needs to learn, 30 games does not mean he is a veteran. Weems and belli have NBA EXPERIENCE, derozen does not. Give derozen 30 min a game and i guarantee that he will be taking more bad shots, turnovers ect.

Man, this one guy has one ok game and you guys need to free him. He needs to learn a bit more. HE NEEDS TO BECOME MORE CONSISTENT before he gets more minutes

Fuck man what wrong with you people, we are winning 7-1 in the last 8 games and now you want to fuck with a good thing. as long as we keep winning derozen should keep his ass on the bench, we need all the games we can get.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:16 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Fuck this, fuck that, fuck, fuck, fuck....

Weems and Belinelli have never played significant roles on any team they've been on. Aside from that stretch where Belinelli started 16 games for GS both guys have a lot of NBA experience on the bench. That's valuable for closing out games!!!

And TORap, I am actually going to disagree and say that DeRozan is a better overall defender than Weems, maybe not as a straight up defender but as a team defender and a guy who disrupts the passing lanes. He's created more tips with his tree branch arms than anyone besides maybe Marco.

And what makes anyone think that Beli can be relied on in the fourth quarter at this point? Can you honestly tell me you know what you're getting from him on any given night? He'll go off for 15 and not miss a shot hailed as Jesus on ice one night to going 0-8 and being an absolute zero on the floor another night.

When DeRozan's not hitting he still defends, rebounds better than any of our guards, and fills the lane on the fast break better than anyone on the team. Belli's playmaking is nice but we don't need that in the fourth quarter when we've got Turkoglu and Jack (or Jose I guess).

And rookie calls? Bah. How is he going to earn respect if he's not playing minutes that mean anything? Right now he's just another guy getting burn to refs, a guy who doesn't have the respect from his coaches to be counted on to contribute anything of value in meaningful moments. If the coaches aren't going to give him the opportunity to really garner some respect, how is he supposed to?
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:21 PM   #18 (permalink)
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He gets 2.8 rebounds a game, jack actually contributes consistently and gets 2.5 rebounds a game. Derozen is still a rookie and needs to be treated like one.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:29 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Fuck this, fuck that, fuck, fuck, fuck....

Weems and Belinelli have never played significant roles on any team they've been on. Aside from that stretch where Belinelli started 16 games for GS both guys have a lot of NBA experience on the bench. That's valuable for closing out games!!!

And TORap, I am actually going to disagree and say that DeRozan is a better overall defender than Weems, maybe not as a straight up defender but as a team defender and a guy who disrupts the passing lanes. He's created more tips with his tree branch arms than anyone besides maybe Marco.

And what makes anyone think that Beli can be relied on in the fourth quarter at this point? Can you honestly tell me you know what you're getting from him on any given night? He'll go off for 15 and not miss a shot hailed as Jesus on ice one night to going 0-8 and being an absolute zero on the floor another night.

When DeRozan's not hitting he still defends, rebounds better than any of our guards, and fills the lane on the fast break better than anyone on the team. Belli's playmaking is nice but we don't need that in the fourth quarter when we've got Turkoglu and Jack (or Jose I guess).

And rookie calls? Bah. How is he going to earn respect if he's not playing minutes that mean anything? Right now he's just another guy getting burn to refs, a guy who doesn't have the respect from his coaches to be counted on to contribute anything of value in meaningful moments. If the coaches aren't going to give him the opportunity to really garner some respect, how is he supposed to?
1st off... I've said it before and I'll say it again.... I don't give a SHIT what any player on this team has done before this season. Amir... Belli.. Weems.. Banks.... I only care about what they give THIS team. And every one of them has been impressive in their own way.

I'm not going to argue about Weems vs. DD because it's not going to get us anywhere.... all I'm going to say is that this team started playing MUCH better D on the perimeter when Weems' minutes went up. And he's just as active as DD on the glass and on the break.

Belli's game goes FAR beyong what he gives us with shooting.... that's all anyone ever judges him by and it's a shame. Kapono was JUST a shooter.... Belli is FAR more than that. Even the games where he hasn't shot well... he's made an impact.

I'm glad to see all of this love going around for our players (finally!) instead of all the negativity but let's not get out of hand here. There's no NEED to rush DD along.

GOOD teams play their rookies short minutes and bring them along slowly.

BAD teams play their rookies a ton because they just don't have as many options to go to.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:32 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I agree. He was playing great, take advantage of that. 6 of 7, no foul trouble or an opponent burning his ass on the defensive end.

I didn't get that Calderon had to finish yesterday at all. He was playing well too, addmitedly, but the team has done great when he was out and it was his first game back.
One disadvantage off the Jack/Josť/Hedo closing lineup imo is the lack of touches for Turkoglu starting the offense and setting up. While this was meshing pretty well with Jack and Banks the last games. Now in the end Calderon dominated the ball mostly in the fourth and the Raptors struggled to score from the floor in the final minutes.
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