The Five Biggest IF's in the East - Re: Jermaine - Page 3
Old 08-13-2008, 04:03 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Bargs will be okay. As it has been said before he was just a little nervous above being the first Euro being chosen #1. He'll be fine this year. I like Andrea as well.
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Old 08-13-2008, 07:00 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Yea I think Bargs will be fine and it was because of one injury last season that made him go through that slump
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Old 08-13-2008, 07:56 PM   #43 (permalink)
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or perhaps the league adjusted to him, cuz they had some scouting material and everything else is an excuse.
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:20 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Bargs had a notably shitty year. Rasho had a career year. And Bargs numbers weren't even that much worse than Rasho's if at all.

I'm also a little confused as to why you keep bringing up Rasho's defense. It was passable...nothing more, nothing less. He is not an above average post defender for his position, and he sure as fuck can't defend anywhere outside the post. Furthermore, I would rather have Bargs in there defending the post anyway, because Rasho can't effectively guard anyone with even a hint of quickness. Watch the Orlando series. Bargs was more effective defensively than people gave him credit for, and was certainly more effective than Rasho, who saw his minutes decreased significantly because he couldn't defend Dwight.

Rasho is a marginally better one on one post defender than Bargs right now. Bargs is constantly improving in that regard, Rasho is not.

And stop talking as though Bargs is locked into the 5 spot. It's not that simple of a comparison. One of his primary assets is versatility, which I would hope you have all noticed is a much sought after attribute in the NBA right now. Bargs can defend any 4 or 5, and some 3's. Rasho can defend big, slow 5's...that's it.

And I'm not going to bore you by going through all the things Bargs does offensively that Rasho has never dreamed of, but I will say that Andrea Bargnani was born with more offensive ability than Rasho has ever had. Rasho could catch a pass down low and lay it up, and would occasionally grab a rebound and lay it back up. Every now and then he would hit a foul line set shot, although I'm curious to know his percentage on those short shots because he seemed to miss more than he made. He also set screens on offense. That's it. Literally.

We all know what Bargs is capable of, and he's shown it plenty.

Doc, you seem to be making a straight up comparison using only Rasho's skill set as the guideline. You say Andrea can't play in the low post, yet you coincidentally forget to mention Rasho cant do anything but play in the low post. You say Andrea was out of position on offense for offensive boards (although, again, he's versatile...it would be stupid to leave him camped in the paint) yet you conveniently omit the fact that 5 rebounds per game is pathetic for a 7 footer who never leaves the paint like Rasho.

You seem to be ignoring most of what makes Bargnani a special player, while focusing on the things that Rasho does "well". If you want to say Rasho is better than Bargnani because of his post play, then I could just as easily fire back by saying that Bargnani's perimeter game is better. Those are both poor arguments, because they are both skewed towards the player that plays that style of game.

If you want a big, slow, traditional centre who never leaves the paint and only shoots when it's wide open, then yeah...take Rasho. You could also take Joel Pryzbilla, or any other token space filler on every bench in the NBA. Sure, Rasho is a little more talented than most of them, but that's still what he is. But Bargs is so much more already than a player with Rasho's skill set could ever be.

When you take the whole package into account, Rasho's advantage in the post (which I still view as very minimal given that he can't do anything on offense) is more than offset by the fact that Bargnani does things every game that Rasho has never even considered doing.

Put it on the floor? Never. Create his own shot? Never. Create match up problems? Never. Shoot from outside 15 feet? Never. Draw a defender to help Bosh deal with doubles? Never.

Just because the guy plays his role well doesn't make him a great, or even a good player. Bargnani is a one of a kind talent, and he's just coming into his own. There are multiple Rashos in every draft. Take your pick.

Edit: Sorry...didnt realize it was this long
Great post.I couldn't agree more.Bargnani is 22 Rasho is 32 and on the decline.Bargnani is 22 with already a tone more talent and versitility then Rasho could have dreamed of having at the same age.Comparing these two is like comparing a Ford Focus(Ford anything) to a Lexus.
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:22 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Yea I think Bargs will be fine and it was because of one injury last season that made him go through that slump
Injury,breathing issues,loss of confidence due to yanking on-off the bench (inconsistent playing time).
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Old 08-14-2008, 10:34 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Yea all those reasons came to an affect for Bargs poor season
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Old 08-14-2008, 10:57 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Great post.I couldn't agree more.Bargnani is 22 Rasho is 32 and on the decline.Bargnani is 22 with already a tone more talent and versitility then Rasho could have dreamed of having at the same age.Comparing these two is like comparing a Ford Focus(Ford anything) to a Lexus.
Fuck ... I swear some of your guys don't read. I was speaking in the NOW, not on potential 3 to 4 years from now. Of course Bargnani's the better player in the long run, but from last year and right now Rasho serves (served) a better purpose on this roster than Bargnani did on this team.

Anyhow, I'm done with it because there no point in arguing now seeing how Rasho's off to Indy. RIP Rasho
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Old 08-14-2008, 11:02 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Yeah, its almost a guarantee Rasho would have more of an impact and be a better bench player than Bargs for next year unless Bargs miraculously refound his shooting touch and started rebounding.
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Old 08-14-2008, 11:11 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Fuck ... I swear some of your guys don't read. I was speaking in the NOW, not on potential 3 to 4 years from now. Of course Bargnani's the better player in the long run, but from last year and right now Rasho serves (served) a better purpose on this roster than Bargnani did on this team.

Anyhow, I'm done with it because there no point in arguing now seeing how Rasho's off to Indy. RIP Rasho
Doc, I wouldn't be at all surprised if we signed Rasho back either during the season (if he is let go/bought out by the Pacers) or next summer as a FA.
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Old 08-14-2008, 11:35 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Yea I heard the same thing the Pacers might release him or next summer when he is a FA I can almost gaurntee that the raps will try to get him
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Old 08-14-2008, 11:51 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Doc, I wouldn't be at all surprised if we signed Rasho back either during the season (if he is let go/bought out by the Pacers) or next summer as a FA.
He'd certainly be some fantastic insurance to have "in case of" as well a mentor to the younger players like he was to Ford, Kapono and Moon last season. I'll certainly miss him.
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Old 08-14-2008, 11:54 AM   #52 (permalink)
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I think we'll miss Rasho more defensively than we think. He became a solid, solid anchor and he always played his position really well. And if you notice, he's always talking, always aware where he is on the court. The offense that he provided last year was a big, big bonus.
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:04 PM   #53 (permalink)
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I think we'll miss Rasho more defensively than we think. He became a solid, solid anchor and he always played his position really well. And if you notice, he's always talking, always aware where he is on the court. The offense that he provided last year was a big, big bonus.
+1 I couldn't agree with you more .... and thank you.
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:08 PM   #54 (permalink)
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I've always been a fan of Rasho. Yes, he is not very athletic or very quick - but he is one of the smartest Raptors ever and that's very, very important on the floor, especially on defence.

I truly don't get the hate he seems to have generated in Minny fans or SA fans, but if it was up to me, he'd always be welcome to come back and play for the Raps.
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:15 PM   #55 (permalink)
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I think the hate that he had with Minny/SA fans dealt moreso with the fact that many considered he had some offensive upside and that he would become an upper tier centre in the league.

He came here with low expectations and blew all of our expectations away.
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:18 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Yeah, its almost a guarantee Rasho would have more of an impact and be a better bench player than Bargs for next year unless Bargs miraculously refound his shooting touch and started rebounding.
Thats total overkill. The guy was playing on one leg last year. He's one of the purest shooters in the league and he may have the fastest release...Throw in that he's 7ft and you've got a dangerous shooter. Now that he has two legs to get under his shot with he will bounce back. No miracle required.
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Old 08-14-2008, 01:20 PM   #57 (permalink)
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I remember the 3 pointer he hit against the bobcats, that was too funny
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Old 08-14-2008, 03:06 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Fuck ... I swear some of your guys don't read. I was speaking in the NOW, not on potential 3 to 4 years from now. Of course Bargnani's the better player in the long run, but from last year and right now Rasho serves (served) a better purpose on this roster than Bargnani did on this team.

Anyhow, I'm done with it because there no point in arguing now seeing how Rasho's off to Indy. RIP Rasho
I too was speaking in the NOW

As in, as of August 14, 2008, Andrea Bargnani is a better basketball player than Rasho Nesterovic.

If you read my essay, I presented a number of points that had nothing to do with potential, none of which you have addressed.

I certainly hope you aren't accusing me of not reading your posts, seeing as it seems you chose to ignore my entire argument.
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Old 08-14-2008, 03:17 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Fuck ... I swear some of your guys don't read. I was speaking in the NOW, not on potential 3 to 4 years from now. Of course Bargnani's the better player in the long run, but from last year and right now Rasho serves (served) a better purpose on this roster than Bargnani did on this team.

Anyhow, I'm done with it because there no point in arguing now seeing how Rasho's off to Indy. RIP Rasho
Who said anything about 3 or 4 years from now?Who's the one not reading?Bargnani at this MOMENTt is a much better player then Rasho,Period.
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Old 08-14-2008, 03:26 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I think that no one is reading...


Rasho served a better purpose on the roster last year than Rasho.period. Just like Doc said.
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