FINAL: Toronto Raptors 112 Detroit Pistons 91 - Page 22
Old 01-10-2014, 09:05 PM   #421 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,321
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ball Don't Lie View Post
His offence isn't the problem. If he's scoring 12 PPG at 20 years old on 55+% from the field when he never has plays called for him, that's damn good. He isn't just scoring off of dunks either, he's getting offensive rebound put backs in the paint, and duck ins, much like Val, to where he can catch and finish with a hook shot, or a rolling layup at the rim. As he continues to improve, if he actually develops a few moves in the post and they go to him more to where he gets a few points off of skill moves as well, he could end up being an 18-20 PPG player if he's already scoring 12 off of broken plays, duck ins, rebounds, and drop off passes.

Again, he does have a long way to go on defence, but so do all 20 year old big men. A lot of defence comes down to coaching as I said previously, and I hope for Val and Drummonds sake, they end up with better coaches sooner rather than later to help them get to the next level to where they can eventually be as good as Hibbert defensively.

People forget how bad Hibbert was defensively his first few years. He wasn't seen as the sharpest knife in the drawer, and he was a fouling machine. Same with Amir. You can call Drummond a bird brain now, but we'll see what you have to say when he's 25 and he's one of the most imposing defensive players in the NBA. You just cant judge young big men's defensive prowess this early in their career, it's a skill that takes at least 4 years to really develop in terms of how to read all of the different coverages and how to react to them individually while the game is going 100 mph. Both him and Val have the tools to be great defensive big men, and I'm positive when we talk about them in 5 years from now, no one will be calling them anything close to a liability in any regard like they are referred to now in certain aspects.
Offensive rebounding is very much affected by the teams defensive style and whether you leave a player on to rebound or everyone heads back n D or not. He's a bit of a byproduct of a bad defense and they are awful in the paint on D.
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2014, 11:22 PM   #422 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 10,417
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
Is the guy that constantly gives up on this team every game, whether they have a lead or not, before during and after, need to lecture us on a fanbase that gets negative too readily?
hm, you're making an interesting association between the Toronto Raptors and the current roster. They are not the same. the Toronto Raptors is going to be here in 15 years when everybody on this roster will be gone.

The reason thriller and the rest of us tankers want this roster to lose, is to give the team (aka the franchise) a better chance to win tomorrow.

The anti-tankers want this particular team to win now, even though it may compromise the chance of winning tomorrow. Maybe you truly believe that winning now is better for the future. Heck, maybe you're even right (nah, not really).

But at worst, the most you can say about us is that we are wrong in thinking that tanking this season is better for the franchise.
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2014, 11:54 PM   #423 (permalink)
back

Administrator

 
DuCa00795's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Maratimes
Posts: 3,272
Representing:
Default

Who cares what all these tankers think is going to happen...it's not going to happen...so can we get over it?
DuCa00795 is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 02:34 AM   #424 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,433
Representing:
Default

We're talking about a 20-yr old 2nd year player who avgs 13 & 13 on 60% shooting along with 1.6 blks and 1.4 stls per game....and some of you are suggesting that Ross projects better?

Wow. And here I thought that I was the biggest homer on the board.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 03:25 AM   #425 (permalink)
the gat'll killya quicker, when I'm drunk off the liquor

The Mara sisters are hot!
 
Bill Haverchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,374
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
We're talking about a 20-yr old 2nd year player who avgs 13 & 13 on 60% shooting along with 1.6 blks and 1.4 stls per game....and some of you are suggesting that Ross projects better?

Wow. And here I thought that I was the biggest homer on the board.
Who actually said that? Don't go back to inventing things, please.

Drummond is undoubtedly the better trade asset. But Ross is not chop liver, and in terms of building a team with the other players we already have (Amir and JV), the gap is just not worth the degree of crying that some people do, and have done in the past, over the "missed pick".

I think that's all that's really being said.
Bill Haverchuck is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 03:58 AM   #426 (permalink)
payin Dwyane Wade

Senior Member
 
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,321
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck View Post
Who actually said that? Don't go back to inventing things, please.
Thats his deal..
JoeyJoJo Shabbadu is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 07:09 AM   #427 (permalink)
LX
effin' ineffable

In the Paint
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 30,071
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moremilk View Post
hm, you're making an interesting association between the Toronto Raptors and the current roster. They are not the same. the Toronto Raptors is going to be here in 15 years when everybody on this roster will be gone.

The reason thriller and the rest of us tankers want this roster to lose, is to give the team (aka the franchise) a better chance to win tomorrow.

The anti-tankers want this particular team to win now, even though it may compromise the chance of winning tomorrow. Maybe you truly believe that winning now is better for the future. Heck, maybe you're even right (nah, not really).

But at worst, the most you can say about us is that we are wrong in thinking that tanking this season is better for the franchise.
I wasn't referring to tanking in any way shape or form. That ship has sailed. I was referring to the guy that foresees blowouts, third quarter collapses, ugly basketball, around every corner with this team. I know it's just more residue from 18 years of mostly crap, but it's not any superior position to be in relative to the "fanbase".
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 10:39 AM   #428 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 10,417
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LX View Post
I wasn't referring to tanking in any way shape or form. That ship has sailed. I was referring to the guy that foresees blowouts, third quarter collapses, ugly basketball, around every corner with this team. I know it's just more residue from 18 years of mostly crap, but it's not any superior position to be in relative to the "fanbase".
ok

nevertheless, I think it's the wrong approach to dismiss anything anybody said because of other things they said or did in the past. Each post should be judged by its merits, not by the author. At least that's what I believe in.
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 11:44 AM   #429 (permalink)
Diamond Scorpion
is pounding the rock! (Edit)

Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Haverchuck View Post
Who actually said that? Don't go back to inventing things, please.

Drummond is undoubtedly the better trade asset. But Ross is not chop liver, and in terms of building a team with the other players we already have (Amir and JV), the gap is just not worth the degree of crying that some people do, and have done in the past, over the "missed pick".

I think that's all that's really being said.
Well said Bill.

Also for all the Drummond lovers, you do realize if we had Drummond that there would be no way in hell you could play Drummond and JV together. Drummond is athletic but can't shoot to save his life, and JV can barely run up the court at times. Both are C's meaning you would only have to trade one.

I know everyone is saying that trading either one as an asset would be greater than having Ross as an asset, but I must say Ross has had a solid season and shown much improvement on both ends of the floor.

We should be happy we got him, because BC could have easily wasted that pick on garbage talent that were picked after Ross.

Here is all the first rounders selected after Ross in order

9 Andre Drummond
10 Austin Rivers
11 Meyers Leonard
12 Jeremy Lamb
13 Kendall Marshall
14 John Henson
15 Maurice Harkless
16 Royce White
17 Tyler Zeller
18 Terrence Jones
19 Andrew Nicholason
20 Evan Fournier
21 Jared Sullinger
22 Fab Melo
23 John Jenkins
24 Jared Cunningham
25 Tony Wroten
26 Miles Plumlee
27 Arnett Moultrie
28 Perry Jones III
29 Marquis Teague
30 Festus Ezeli

Only good players in the second round playing solid minutes for their respective teams are:

31 Jeffery Taylor
34 Jae Crowder
35 Draymond Green

Now looking at how Ross has turned out so far, can you honestly name a player from that list that is extremely more talented than Ross and should have been picked over him? I know I can't.

Last edited by Diamond Scorpion; 01-11-2014 at 11:48 AM.
  Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 01:51 PM   #430 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,433
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ball Don't Lie View Post
I've always supported Ross as a player, even when he struggled last year and most of the fan base wanted to trade him thinking he was a scrub who couldn't shoot consistently, when shooting was supposed to be his biggest strength. I think he can be more than a 3+D guy if he keeps working hard in the off season, and I like how we're using him currently as primarily a spot up guy in areas he shoots well in behind the arc. His improvement defensively has been fantastic.

I'm just saying to compare the two right now and not say that Drummond is light years more valuable, and a better player, is complete an utter non sense. It was still a mistake not to draft Drummond, despite TRoss' play.
Bang on.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2014, 03:07 PM   #431 (permalink)
...

Senior Member

 
Ball Don't Lie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,161
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by niggles View Post
This is getting silly. Drummond doesn't have to be bad for JV to be good and vice-versa. JV is a Raptor, Drummond is a Piston, and since they aren't going to be team-mates anytime soon, we just sit back and enjoy the battles between them for the next 10 years. Enjoy the game within the game.
You took my comment the wrong way. I wasn't comparing them. I said that calling Drummond a 'bird brain' and insinuating he'll always be a below average defender because he makes bad mistakes on defence at 20 years old is complete nonsense, which is why I referenced Amir and Hibbert, both players who took a long time to really become good defensive players. JV was criticized last year and in the early part of this year the same way, in that fans are taking his 1+ years of below average defensive play and thinking that it's going to stay at that same level for the remainder of his career for whatever reason.

Fans thinking that both players will stay as below average defenders because they're not great yet in their 2nd years just shows the fans lack of IQ. It takes years of experience to know how to read and react to all defensive situations correctly, and even still mistakes will be made, just less of them as players get more experience.

Both players have different attributes, but as I said, both have the skill, natural ability, and footwork to one day become defensive anchors at their position
Ball Don't Lie is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24