FINAL: Toronto Raptors 110 vs. New York Knicks 113 - Page 3
Old 12-08-2010, 12:57 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Oh, and today at shootaround triano said no changes will be made to the starting lineup because he would want it to seem like he singling out anyone, he says we're not losing because of any one or two players. Thoughts?
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:00 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Weems didn't play well but the entire team got spanked by Indian. Hibbert kicked Bargs' ass, Collison walked over Jose, etc, etc. It was an ugly game and placing the blame on Weems is something that I hope is only being done by the fans.


That being said, Derozan, Weems and the young gunz are the core of this team, and those guys need to come out and be solid.

And DK, anger was perhaps a poor choice of words, but come out with a chip on their shoulder, with something to prove.

Although anger when harnessed and focused can be a powerful emotion.
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:09 PM   #43 (permalink)
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lm predicting a win, Raptors are playing their most important game of the season, they're going to be aggressive and win by 10 points
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:12 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Oh, and today at shootaround triano said no changes will be made to the starting lineup because he would want it to seem like he singling out anyone, he says we're not losing because of any one or two players. Thoughts?
:facepalm: Maybe next game, or next game, or next game... when we finally will win once, Triano will assume things are okay.

Was it the John Salley interview the other day where he said that the coaches job is to basically make substitutions. Triano can't even do that.

I don't understand how you just let such young/inexperienced guys play it out. Bayless has been proficient so at least give him a chance. If you don't want to single anyone out, change 2 or 3 guys.

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Weems didn't play well but the entire team got spanked by Indian. Hibbert kicked Bargs' ass, Collison walked over Jose, etc, etc. It was an ugly game and placing the blame on Weems is something that I hope is only being done by the fans.

That being said, Derozan, Weems and the young gunz are the core of this team, and those guys need to come out and be solid.
Weems, without question, had the worst game and is the biggest culprit considering Indiana ran away in the first quarter. Not only was Weems taking unnecessary shots in the 1st quarter but Granger gave him the business in the first half. Arguably worst player on offense and defense.

Disagree about young onez being the core of this team. Amir is solid, Derozan is consistently inconsistent and Weems will probably not even be on the Raptors after this season. Like it or not but Bargnani is really the core of this team. Some days he plays like poop but his overall numbers are decent.
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:19 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Lol.... you just want Kleiza to play (and start) so badly.... that much is obvious.

Sadly, he's been just as inconsistent as the rest of the team (including Bargs).
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:23 PM   #46 (permalink)
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:facepalm: Maybe next game, or next game, or next game... when we finally will win once, Triano will assume things are okay.

Was it the John Salley interview the other day where he said that the coaches job is to basically make substitutions. Triano can't even do that.

I don't understand how you just let such young/inexperienced guys play it out. Bayless has been proficient so at least give him a chance. If you don't want to single anyone out, change 2 or 3 guys.
He also mentioned that a coach has to look the part and command a room for players to want to play hard night in night out for him, and while obviously there's more to it then that I always thought triano looks more like a school teacher.
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:25 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Lol.... you just want Kleiza to play (and start) so badly.... that much is obvious.

Sadly, he's been just as inconsistent as the rest of the team (including Bargs).
Yup... especially because I bought tickets to the game tonight. If Kleiza doesn't play 25 minutes I'm going be pissed. Well, maybe watching Amare in person for the first time will be entertaining.

Maybe biased, but Kleiza was not that inconsistent when he was starting. It was only until his injury, and Weems' replacement at SF, that he's been playing like poop.

Let's go!!!

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Old 12-08-2010, 01:29 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Yup... especially because I bought tickets to the game tonight. If Kleiza doesn't play 25 minutes I'm going be pissed. Well, maybe watching Amare in person for the first time will be entertaining.

Maybe biased, but Kleiza was not that inconsistent when he was starting. It was only until his injury, and Weems' replacement at SF, that he's been playing like poop.

Let's go!!!

Well I kind of agree, Kleiza prior to the injury was playing well. Since coming off the bench he's looked awful. Imo he fits better with the starters and can at least hit some shots from outside and spread the floor unlike our current starting wings.
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:32 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Yup... especially because I bought tickets to the game tonight. If Kleiza doesn't play 25 minutes I'm going be pissed. Well, maybe watching Amare in person for the first time will be entertaining.

Maybe biased, but Kleiza was not that inconsistent when he was starting. It was only until his injury, and Weems' replacement at SF, that he's been playing like poop.

Let's go!!!

So we should just guarantee him 30 min/gm like Bargs then? Because poor Linas just can't play off the bench?

I don't think so.

I'll never understand the blind patriotism that infects the bball world... was anyone here clamoring to see Rick Fox or Todd MacCullough or Bill Wennington when they were playing? Just because they were Canadian? Is anyone pissed because Denham Brown isn't playing on an NBA team?

If you bring something to the team you play... if you're a liability then you sit.

It's that simple.
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:37 PM   #50 (permalink)
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So we should just guarantee him 30 min/gm like Bargs then? Because poor Linas just can't play off the bench?

I don't think so.

I'll never understand the blind patriotism that infects the bball world... was anyone here clamoring to see Rick Fox or Todd MacCullough or Bill Wennington when they were playing? Just because they were Canadian? Is anyone pissed because Denham Brown isn't playing on an NBA team?

If you bring something to the team you play... if you're a liability then you sit.

It's that simple.
Then Derozan needs to sit his ass down and not be given 30mpg the way he's playing, he's a liability at both ends.
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:42 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Then Derozan needs to sit his ass down and not be given 30mpg the way he's playing, he's a liability at both ends.
Lol... you won't find any argument here.
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:48 PM   #52 (permalink)
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... if you're a liability then you sit.

It's that simple.
i assume you've never coached any kind of sport before...because nothing is that simple
fact is that if you were to go by that philosophy with this team then you couldn't put ANYONE on the floor...because each and everyone of the players on this team bring their own deficiencies and liabilities to the table
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:49 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Lol... you won't find any argument here.
You just can't have both Weems and Derozan on the floor for this many minutes. So either sit Weems and start Kleiza or sit Derozan and start Barbosa.
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Old 12-08-2010, 02:46 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Until they run actual plays then it's pretty hard to fault any of Weems or Derozan over anyone else. Kleiza and Barbosa have been the worst offenders of doing too much on their own. And guess what? They haven't always been a liability. I'll take a liability that is doing something to make all 5 guys on the floor into a viable unit, over a strength that kills the chances of the other four ever becoming cohesive.
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:05 PM   #55 (permalink)
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i assume you've never coached any kind of sport before...because nothing is that simple
fact is that if you were to go by that philosophy with this team then you couldn't put ANYONE on the floor...because each and everyone of the players on this team bring their own deficiencies and liabilities to the table
Not sure what your point is. Have you coached in the NBA? Do you know what it takes then?

Derozan should sit because he clearly doesn't have the skills required of a starting NBA SG.

He can't SHOOT... and he can't DRIBBLE... and his defense is spotty at BEST... so what exactly is he bringing to the floor other than charging towards the rim and flinging up prayers at the rim?

Teams are starting to play off of him now and he's not adapting. He's also a very young player.

If DD were the only option at SG (kind of like how Bargs is the only option at C) then you'd have a point... but since he isn't....
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:29 PM   #56 (permalink)
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I hope we get blown out by 50 points and DeRozan goes 0-25. Triano fired and DeRozan traded for a player with basketball IQ.
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:29 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Not sure what your point is. Have you coached in the NBA? Do you know what it takes then?

Derozan should sit because he clearly doesn't have the skills required of a starting NBA SG.

He can't SHOOT... and he can't DRIBBLE... and his defense is spotty at BEST... so what exactly is he bringing to the floor other than charging towards the rim and flinging up prayers at the rim?

Teams are starting to play off of him now and he's not adapting. He's also a very young player.

If DD were the only option at SG (kind of like how Bargs is the only option at C) then you'd have a point... but since he isn't....
He's not a bad rebounder, and at least he is willing to pass. Starting Barbosa is not really an option, and would turn a well-used scoring specialist into the next Mike James. No thanks.
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:42 PM   #58 (permalink)
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So we should just guarantee him 30 min/gm like Bargs then? Because poor Linas just can't play off the bench?
Dude Kleiza played well when he was starting and received minutes. Give him a chance again is all I'm saying.

I didn't know Bill Wennington was Canadian though. Learn something new everyday on RF.

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Then Derozan needs to sit his ass down and not be given 30mpg the way he's playing, he's a liability at both ends.
Yup. For all the hate on Kleiza, Derozan is averaging ~ 12 pts, 2 assists, 3.5 rebounds in 31 minutes. Kleiza averaging ~ 10 pts, 4 rbg, 1 assist in 22.5 minutes.

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You just can't have both Weems and Derozan on the floor for this many minutes. So either sit Weems and start Kleiza or sit Derozan and start Barbosa.
I think the best is to move Weems to starting SG and start Kleiza at SF.

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Until they run actual plays then it's pretty hard to fault any of Weems or Derozan over anyone else. Kleiza and Barbosa have been the worst offenders of doing too much on their own. And guess what? They haven't always been a liability. I'll take a liability that is doing something to make all 5 guys on the floor into a viable unit, over a strength that kills the chances of the other four ever becoming cohesive.
All of these guys have had good games. Kleiza played well in the beginning of the season, Barbosa light up Boston, Weems was fantastic initially when Kleiza was injured, Derozan dropped over 20 pts several games.

But now Weems and Derozan are playing like sh!t. Not only that but Weems is playing selfish. Wouldn't hurt to try something different for a few games. If that fails, give the "Young Onez" another opportunity. Adjust accordingly. Derozan is getting spoiled starting and that mainly frustrates me about the current rotation. Kleiza can come off the bench but give him 30 minutes. If Weems plays like he did against Indiana, don't wait until a few minutes to go in the 1st quarter to sub him out.

Anyway I gotta get ready and catch the LIRR to Penn Station soon. GF better be getting out of class on time. Something is bound to go wrong but hopefully it's not Kleiza playing 10 minutes. This better be money well spent. Enjoy the game fellows.
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:42 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I sense a soft effort and a blow-out. Amare and Felton are just way better than Bargs and Jose. Wilson, Fields and Gallo are way better than DD, Sonny and Kleiza

Keep the tank in mind
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:45 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Not sure what your point is. Have you coached in the NBA? Do you know what it takes then?
Dude, he said "any sport". And his comment was pretty clear. It shouldn't be confusing. No matter what sport you're coaching, unless you have a roster of perfect players, you're always faced with the problem of having to play somebody who has liabilities. One player might be a liability in one sense, but his/her replacement will have shortcomings to. So his point was, you can't just say "he's a liability, get him off the court! " You gotta have a better argument than that.

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Derozan should sit because he clearly doesn't have the skills required of a starting NBA SG.
We're rebuilding. Barbossa is not the SG of the future. You could start him if you're desperate to win more than 35 games, but really, in the longterm, where does that get this franchise? No thanks.

Oh, and before you say "start Bayless at SG", he is too small. He can play a few minutes here and there are the 2 but it's better done against specific lineups. Bayless at the 2 is not a longterm solution, either. Bayless needs minutes at the 1, since that is the role he will likely be filling longterm.

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He can't SHOOT... and he can't DRIBBLE... and his defense is spotty at BEST... so what exactly is he bringing to the floor other than charging towards the rim and flinging up prayers at the rim?

Teams are starting to play off of him now and he's not adapting. He's also a very young player.
Sitting on the bench ain't going to improve any of those things. If this team actually stood a chance of accomplishing something worthwhile this year, I'd be less inclined to disagree with you. But this team isn't going to do anything. If they are lucky, they will squeek into the playoffs and get ass fucked.

To be clear, I hope that off the court Jay is making point out how these guys aren't meeting certain standards. In fact, Leo strayed from his homerism during the Indiana game and pointed out a number of plays during which DD was not going to the paint hard enough. The fact of the matter is, DD CAN get to the line 6-8 times if he wants.

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If DD were the only option at SG (kind of like how Bargs is the only option at C) then you'd have a point... but since he isn't....
Play Barbossa? Weems? Bayless? Genuine question here. Is that what you want?
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