FINAL: Toronto Raptors 104 OKC Thunder 98 - Page 17
Old 12-23-2013, 02:52 AM   #321 (permalink)
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If we trade Lowry, we'll have a PG tandem of Vasquez and Stone/Buycks, which is easily the worst in the league, and our offence will suffer considerably from it since we'll have no creativity and offensive movement due to the initial point of attack being gone. You'll no longer see the crisp ball movement from a Lowry/Val or Amir generated pick and roll because teams dont need to worry about Vasquez beating them by scoring or penetrating, nor the backups.

We'll essentially go back to being a late clock, low efficiency chucking team without Lowry, and our defence will suffer immensely too since Vasquez may be a worse defender than Calderon.

We do have a chance to finish bottom 3 if we trade Lowry. He's what's making this team go during this winning period.
nah. without lowry this team finishes any 9 - 10th and will be picking 11 - 12th.

its harder to suck this year than make the playoffs.

we all know it. masai knows it.

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Old 12-23-2013, 05:12 AM   #322 (permalink)
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Lowry took 3 charges. Not afraid to scrape the paint off the car you're selling
How is he still in one piece?
Amir should get a spot on all-nba defense team. Wonderful how he moves his feet and disturbs everyone who comes at him.
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Old 12-23-2013, 06:54 AM   #323 (permalink)
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Wow, this has to go in the RF Hall of Shame, and has to be one of the most overreactionary responses to any topic in messageboard history.

We wouldn't beat the Wizards. Or Pistons. Or Hawks.

And there is 0 chance we'd beat MIA or IND, and I'd guarantee that the margin of victory would be 10+ for either of those teams against us. We might be close for the first half in 1 or 2 of the home games maybe, if you qualify that as compettitive.

You guys get way too caught up in the high's of the wins and don't recognize how bad this team still is. We're a below .500 team whose only in the playoff hunt because the NBA's Easten conference is so terrible right now. We're not a good team. If we were in the Western conference we'd be in the basement. Think about that, and tell me if you still think we're any good, or if this teams main core of players is good enough to carry us to being contenders for years to come, and you'll see where we are right now.
Says the guy that guaranteed nothing but losses to close out the year.

Certainly this team will still need to improve, but there is more than one way to do that then to get really bad first. It's going to take some time either way, and personally, i have no problem with seeing incremental improvement over time. To me it beats feeling anguished with every nice win.

This team has a positive point differential for the first time in a hella long time. They are around a top ten team defensively. They have a winning road record. And the overall record is not too bad considering the strength of their schedule, and how dysfunctional Rudy made them. I think looking for negatives amongst all that is a strange exercise. I believe in Masai.
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Old 12-23-2013, 06:59 AM   #324 (permalink)
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Just saw jonas and amir tracking down Westbrook's drive late in the game. Woo baby!
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Old 12-23-2013, 07:56 AM   #325 (permalink)
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Last edited by jeffb; 12-23-2013 at 07:59 AM.
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Old 12-23-2013, 08:53 AM   #326 (permalink)
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I think we should keep lowry, vasquez and patterson, see if we can get lucky/great scouting with a mid-round pick (a la indiana,) and then keep trying to improve. When the team is winning and players looking good, trades are more doable. We could trade 2 or 3 players and a pick for a game changer (a la harden,) and because our depth is now decent it wouldn't destroy the team.

We don't need a top 3 pick to be a very solid team, debateably we do to be a contender, but i'd LOVE to be as good as indiana and they haven't had top 3 picks.
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:23 AM   #327 (permalink)
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I think we should keep lowry, vasquez and patterson, see if we can get lucky/great scouting with a mid-round pick (a la indiana,) and then keep trying to improve. When the team is winning and players looking good, trades are more doable. We could trade 2 or 3 players and a pick for a game changer (a la harden,) and because our depth is now decent it wouldn't destroy the team.

We don't need a top 3 pick to be a very solid team, debateably we do to be a contender, but i'd LOVE to be as good as indiana and they haven't had top 3 picks.
Exactly.. Ujiri is going with the flow.. I think the only way he breaks this group up is if they really stink it up, like lose 10 of 12 etc, but I honestly see us making playoffs.. then making allot of noise in the draft, because with each win.. players like Val, Amir, Lowry and DD values increase.. which makes trading them easier
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:44 AM   #328 (permalink)
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Durant and Westbrook are two of the biggest floppers in the league - love seeing them lose.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:05 AM   #329 (permalink)
and that's the bottom line, cause JV said so!!!

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Durant and Westbrook are two of the biggest floppers in the league - love seeing them lose.
Yeah right pal. So many guys worse than them, Durant is a pretty honest player imo
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:38 AM   #330 (permalink)
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Griffin and paul are both far worse for starters.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:51 AM   #331 (permalink)
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I think we should keep lowry, vasquez and patterson, see if we can get lucky/great scouting with a mid-round pick (a la indiana,) and then keep trying to improve. When the team is winning and players looking good, trades are more doable. We could trade 2 or 3 players and a pick for a game changer (a la harden,) and because our depth is now decent it wouldn't destroy the team.

We don't need a top 3 pick to be a very solid team, debateably we do to be a contender, but i'd LOVE to be as good as indiana and they haven't had top 3 picks.
How would you suggest we go about keeping lowry?
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:02 AM   #332 (permalink)
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We've got to convince him, somehow, he's a huge part of this core.
Having him walk for nothing would be really painful.
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:06 AM   #333 (permalink)
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Agreed MU almost has to trade Kyle at this point. Plus Kyle is in a contract year, that is why he is playing so well (just like Jose did last year)
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:11 AM   #334 (permalink)
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How would you suggest we go about keeping lowry?
Not trade him...

On a note about Durant, he has always said the Toronto was his favorite team growing up...

:mu:
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:13 AM   #335 (permalink)
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We've got to convince him, somehow, he's a huge part of this core.
Having him walk for nothing would be really painful.
He'll be gone by the deadline
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:13 AM   #336 (permalink)
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Agreed MU almost has to trade Kyle at this point. Plus Kyle is in a contract year, that is why he is playing so well (just like Jose did last year)
You think Kyle is only playing so well because he is in his contract year? This player is exactly what we traded for when we brought him in..
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:45 AM   #337 (permalink)
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I think we should keep lowry, vasquez and patterson, see if we can get lucky/great scouting with a mid-round pick (a la indiana,) and then keep trying to improve. When the team is winning and players looking good, trades are more doable. We could trade 2 or 3 players and a pick for a game changer (a la harden,) and because our depth is now decent it wouldn't destroy the team.

We don't need a top 3 pick to be a very solid team, debateably we do to be a contender, but i'd LOVE to be as good as indiana and they haven't had top 3 picks.
Those last sentences imply that Indiana isn't a contender, unless I misunderstood. That is very incorrect.

And we can't keep Lowry, because if we do we're over the cap. Do you really want to be over the cap with this team? You say we should just try to get lucky with a mid-round pick, like that's an easy thing to do. I do not want to chance the future of this team on a 15th pick. Nobody is lining up to trade away game changers. The Harden situation was very unique, and I doubt it happens again, and if it does the team will look at the Harden trade and try to get a lot of assets for their player.

Basically, I don't want to wager the future of this team on a mid-1st, internal growth, and hoping to hose a team in a trade. Would much rather maintain cap space, get great prospects with high picks, and maximize assets to have a higher chance of getting a good deal.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:41 PM   #338 (permalink)
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How would you suggest we go about keeping lowry?
Yeah I was going to say. Also- GV and PP. I mean maybe for the QO's to keep flexibility for the summer of 2015 but even then.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:49 PM   #339 (permalink)
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Those last sentences imply that Indiana isn't a contender, unless I misunderstood. That is very incorrect.

And we can't keep Lowry, because if we do we're over the cap. Do you really want to be over the cap with this team? You say we should just try to get lucky with a mid-round pick, like that's an easy thing to do. I do not want to chance the future of this team on a 15th pick. Nobody is lining up to trade away game changers. The Harden situation was very unique, and I doubt it happens again, and if it does the team will look at the Harden trade and try to get a lot of assets for their player.

Basically, I don't want to wager the future of this team on a mid-1st, internal growth, and hoping to hose a team in a trade. Would much rather maintain cap space, get great prospects with high picks, and maximize assets to have a higher chance of getting a good deal.
Got to agree with your last paragraph there. Getting lucky with a high non-lottery pick is fool's gold. Keeping Lowry alone puts quite a strain on the team's flexibility but GV and PP too? This isn't a contending team, nor is it a trialed vet playoff team to eat up so much flexibility like that. And - just saying George is a 10th pick, not a 15th-16th pick. Once again, we've all had these discussions on multiple threads- the lower the pick you have, you're just making it insanely harder for yourself to draft a game changer. Maybe MU can dope some GM into dealing DD and the raps 1st" for a top 5 pick, as some have mentioned such as BDL.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:52 PM   #340 (permalink)
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Also - regarding Lowry - MU just doesn't seem like a guy to hand 3-4 year deals at the moment which is probably what KL wants.
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