FINAL: Toronto Raptors 103 Golden State Warriors 112 - Page 28
Old 12-04-2013, 02:32 AM   #541 (permalink)
taking you to school

Senior Member
 
ZanTheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,333
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rapsmannn View Post
treadmill is strong tankers, if the draft lottery was today we would have the 8th best chance at winning the lottery,
That's it, I'm officially joining the tank.
ZanTheMan is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 02:40 AM   #542 (permalink)
LOG
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
LOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,147
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZanTheMan View Post
That's it, I'm officially joining the tank.
LOG is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 02:43 AM   #543 (permalink)
We going to the 'ship!

Senior Member

 
Ball Don't Lie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,712
Representing:
Default

Everyone sees JVs potential because hes so quick on his feet for his size, hes got really good touch on his shots, and hes already extremely fundamentally sound as a 21 year old.

Sure, his defence needs work, but he's 21, and he's a very smart player. He'll figure it out in the next few years, but what people seem to forget is you look a lot better defensively when you're in a good system under a good coach with good players around you.

Hibbert looked like shit his first few years too, and now hes going to be the DPOY. JV has all the tools to soon to be a very good defensive player, and again, his offence is already way beyond his years.

The reason why he's so inconsistent is his lack of opportunities. If you look at the high scoring bigs in the NBA, such as Lee, Aldridge, and Love, they get a majority of their offence on pick and roll or pick and pop. Look it up and you'll see. How many opportunities does JV get off of screen roll per game where he actually receives a pass after he screens the ball? And honestly, how many times do we actually run a pick and roll a game in comparison to other teams?

I'd be willing to bet we're in the bottom 3 of the NBA in terms of the amount of times we run pick and roll, which is the most effective play in basketball if done correctly.

As we've seen with JV in the olympics, and even in his first year, he's a very good finisher on the move and when he gets the ball close to the rim because he keeps the ball high, he's got good leap for lobs, and he puts good touch on the ball if hes on the move to the rim, allowing the shot to bounce in even if he doesnt shoot it correctly.

But yet we run the play a minimal amount of times per game because our coach sucks, and our players have no idea how to use the screens. Lowry never waits for the pick, often causing the big to get an offensive foul, or when he does, he often probes to where he just kicks it back out to the perimeter after putting no pressure on the defence because of his lack of ball handling. When Demar and Rudy are the ball handlers in screen roll, they just keep dribbling around the screen until their man either goes under, or hits the screen so they can shoot.

We have 0 good pick and roll ball handlers, which is the biggest issue with the team offensively, if you just forget about Casey for a second.

Hypothetically, if you had a Rondo type of PG, or even an Isaiah Thomas, a quick PG who knows how to probe and use a screen correctly to open up shots for himself and others, JV would flourish and be one of the best offensive bigs in the game.

I think it's obvious to all the analytic heads, and I think it's our most glaring need, whether its a PG or a wing player. Masai will come through before the start of next season and pair JV with a good pick and roll player, and our offence will flourish with the right coach because of it.
Ball Don't Lie is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 02:47 AM   #544 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
MBailey85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto,Ontario
Posts: 2,377
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
JV needs time, that's all.... he'll be very good, just not dominant like some would dream. It's too bad we chose to fight to the very end with Uzoh... though Drummond would have been a dream. Nothing against Ross, but we need a miracle to save the lack of talent on this team.
That Uzoh game is an underrated mistep. If there was any time to tank,that was it,for the projected 6th spot.

Could have Lillard and the 2014th 1st(that went to Houston).
Or Barnes as solid SF prospect instead of Gay and an additional 13 mil in salary

Its best to forget taking Ross over Drummond.

Its more than just stocking up on picks,its also about what we do with them.
Arraujo over Iguodola
Graham over Granger
Ross over Drummond

History can easily repeat itself.
MBailey85 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 02:50 AM   #545 (permalink)
mixing all day and playing all day

Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 405
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ball Don't Lie View Post
and he's a very smart player.
Not dismissing the fact that JV still has potential but this is something that he lacks which is basketball IQ. A few times in 4th quarter where he made some bad positions and iso plays. Half of the time he'll look lost.

Other than that, hopefully he'll be what everyone is expecting him to be...
Kriz is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 02:58 AM   #546 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by @BaileysBlitz View Post
That Uzoh game is an underrated mistep. If there was any time to tank,that was it,for the projected 6th spot.

Could have Lillard and the 2014th 1st(that went to Houston).
Or Barnes as solid SF prospect instead of Gay and an additional 13 mil in salary

Its best to forget taking Ross over Drummond.

Its more than just stocking up on picks,its also about what we do with them.
Arraujo over Iguodola
Graham over Granger
Ross over Drummond

History can easily repeat itself.
Bargs over LA
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 02:59 AM   #547 (permalink)
thinking a hotpot is...a miniature model for life

Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 23
Representing:
Default

Can we get Hollins to replace Casey?
bakuman is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 03:01 AM   #548 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,492
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! View Post
Bargs over LA
Bosh over Wade

this franchise keeps making bad choices.
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 03:01 AM   #549 (permalink)
likes the consistency in the colangelo built raptors

Senior Member
 
rapsmannn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,427
Representing:
Default

there is only two players I care about seeing play in a Raptors uniform, that is ross and Jonas, I want them both to start and play minutes,

trade rudy or demar to free up space for ross to start

if we focus on developing these two right now, and the losing piling up we will have a great chance at top 5 pick, and turning this team around in 3 years
rapsmannn is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 03:07 AM   #550 (permalink)
taking you to school

Senior Member
 
ZanTheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,333
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriz View Post
Other than that, hopefully he'll be what everyone is expecting him to be...
Well expectations have always been too high to begin with. This fanbase wants Val to be an All-Star, some even said a top 10 to 15 player, which really is ridiculous.

If you look back at the draft Val was in... After Irving you have D. Williams, Kanter, T. Thompson, Val, Vesely, Biyombo, B, Knight, K. Walker, Fredette...
Hardly All-Star company, so let's not automatically assume that Val has to be this or that good because he was a fifth pick.

If he could someday average 15 and 10 that'd be good enough for me.
ZanTheMan is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 03:07 AM   #551 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Bosh over Wade

this franchise keeps making bad choices.
CB wanted LA as a Raptor and BC didn't listen to him.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 03:10 AM   #552 (permalink)
LOG
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
LOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,147
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ball Don't Lie View Post
Everyone sees JVs potential because hes so quick on his feet for his size, hes got really good touch on his shots, and hes already extremely fundamentally sound as a 21 year old.

Sure, his defence needs work, but he's 21, and he's a very smart player. He'll figure it out in the next few years, but what people seem to forget is you look a lot better defensively when you're in a good system under a good coach with good players around you.

Hibbert looked like shit his first few years too, and now hes going to be the DPOY. JV has all the tools to soon to be a very good defensive player, and again, his offence is already way beyond his years.

The reason why he's so inconsistent is his lack of opportunities. If you look at the high scoring bigs in the NBA, such as Lee, Aldridge, and Love, they get a majority of their offence on pick and roll or pick and pop. Look it up and you'll see. How many opportunities does JV get off of screen roll per game where he actually receives a pass after he screens the ball? And honestly, how many times do we actually run a pick and roll a game in comparison to other teams?

I'd be willing to bet we're in the bottom 3 of the NBA in terms of the amount of times we run pick and roll, which is the most effective play in basketball if done correctly.

As we've seen with JV in the olympics, and even in his first year, he's a very good finisher on the move and when he gets the ball close to the rim because he keeps the ball high, he's got good leap for lobs, and he puts good touch on the ball if hes on the move to the rim, allowing the shot to bounce in even if he doesnt shoot it correctly.

But yet we run the play a minimal amount of times per game because our coach sucks, and our players have no idea how to use the screens. Lowry never waits for the pick, often causing the big to get an offensive foul, or when he does, he often probes to where he just kicks it back out to the perimeter after putting no pressure on the defence because of his lack of ball handling. When Demar and Rudy are the ball handlers in screen roll, they just keep dribbling around the screen until their man either goes under, or hits the screen so they can shoot.

We have 0 good pick and roll ball handlers, which is the biggest issue with the team offensively, if you just forget about Casey for a second.

Hypothetically, if you had a Rondo type of PG, or even an Isaiah Thomas, a quick PG who knows how to probe and use a screen correctly to open up shots for himself and others, JV would flourish and be one of the best offensive bigs in the game.

I think it's obvious to all the analytic heads, and I think it's our most glaring need, whether its a PG or a wing player. Masai will come through before the start of next season and pair JV with a good pick and roll player, and our offence will flourish with the right coach because of it.
well said
LOG is online now   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 03:13 AM   #553 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,492
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! View Post
CB wanted LA as a Raptor and BC didn't listen to him.
who cares what that turncoat said anyways.... Wade would have been a better pick
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 03:20 AM   #554 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
who cares what that turncoat said anyways.... Wade would have been a better pick
Whenever I mention Bargs in any capacity you always comment. He was the best player on the team and arguably the best in team history aside from maybe VC. Sometimes listening to the best player on your team is a good thing.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 03:27 AM   #555 (permalink)
.

Senior Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 11,492
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! View Post
Whenever I mention Bargs in any capacity you always comment. He was the best player on the team and arguably the best in team history aside from maybe VC. Sometimes listening to the best player on your team is a good thing.
but my original point was about drafting the better player,.... why couldn't you just address that and not change the subject?

Who cares about Bargnani right now, we're talking about all raps picks.
carp is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 03:31 AM   #556 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
but my original point was about drafting the better player,.... why couldn't you just address that and not change the subject?

Who cares about Bargnani right now, we're talking about all raps picks.
You got to be joking.

Anywho I guess we'll just let bygones be bygones.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 03:33 AM   #557 (permalink)
awesome

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 710
Representing:
Default

I'm going to pretend that we never had a lead.

------------

Ed Davis went off today in his 2nd start for Zbo.

Code:
Ed Davis  21 PT  8-11 FG  5-11 FT  0-0 3P  12/3 RB  1 AS  2 BL  0 ST  1 TO  3 PF  32 MN   (Final, Suns)
Code:
Ed Davis   15.5 PT   .591 of 11.0 FG   .455 of 5.5 FT   -- 3P   10.0/3.0 RB  0.5 AS   1.0 BL   0.5 ST   1.0 TO   4.0 PF   31.0 MN   2/2 GS   (last 2 games)
Code:
Ed Davis   14.0 PT   .593 of 9.0 FG   .588 of 5.7 FT   -- 3P   9.0/3.0 RB  0.7 AS   1.7 BL   0.3 ST   0.7 TO   3.3 PF   28.7 MN   3/2 GS   (last 3 games)
I wish he'd get more playing time. He really deserves to go to a place where he has a shot at starting.
RaptorsFan4Life is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 03:34 AM   #558 (permalink)
"Fake All-Star"

Senior Member
 
TORaptor4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,357
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ball Don't Lie View Post

Hypothetically, if you had a Rondo type of PG, or even an Isaiah Thomas, a quick PG who knows how to probe and use a screen correctly to open up shots for himself and others, JV would flourish and be one of the best offensive bigs in the game.

I think it's obvious to all the analytic heads, and I think it's our most glaring need, whether its a PG or a wing player. Masai will come through before the start of next season and pair JV with a good pick and roll player, and our offence will flourish with the right coach because of it.
I agree.... a PG like that would be a dream.... but unless Masai works some witchcraft and magically nets us Rondo at the deadline I just can't see how it's going to happen.

As much as I do think JV can improve I have been noticing some cause for concern. You mentioned guys like Love, L.A. and David Lee.... all of those guys have versatile, sophisticated games. They're mobile PFs... whereas JV is C. You can't ask JV to play like Bosh. It just won't ever happen. He's not built that way.... any more than Bosh could play like D12.

What JV needs to do is forget about getting touches down low right now and focus on the defensive end. Focus on the glass. Be that guy who ends up with 8 pts, 17 rebs and 4 blks. Unless he really hits the weights and puts on 25lbs of muscle (and improves his footwork) I don't know if I can ever see him being a force in the low post on offense. At best maybe he'll be a Tyson Chandler type who thrives off of great guard play. A good complimentary piece rather than a centerpiece.

As crazy as it sounds I'm actually wondering if a JV/Ross/Lowry for Rondo deal would work for us in the long run. We get a backcourt of Rondo & DD with Amir/TH/Gay up front and still have our first round pick to use in the summer. Perhaps we get lucky and manage to flip Gay for some other useful parts too. Makes you wonder.
TORaptor4Ever is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 03:36 AM   #559 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORaptor4Ever View Post
I agree.... a PG like that would be a dream.... but unless Masai works some witchcraft and magically nets us Rondo at the deadline I just can't see how it's going to happen.

As much as I do think JV can improve I have been noticing some cause for concern. You mentioned guys like Love, L.A. and David Lee.... all of those guys have versatile, sophisticated games. They're mobile PFs... whereas JV is C. You can't ask JV to play like Bosh. It just won't ever happen. He's not built that way.... any more than Bosh could play like D12.

What JV needs to do is forget about getting touches down low right now and focus on the defensive end. Focus on the glass. Be that guy who ends up with 8 pts, 17 rebs and 4 blks. Unless he really hits the weights and puts on 25lbs of muscle (and improves his footwork) I don't know if I can ever see him being a force in the low post on offense. At best maybe he'll be a Tyson Chandler type who thrives off of great guard play. A good complimentary piece rather than a centerpiece.

As crazy as it sounds I'm actually wondering if a JV/Ross/Lowry for Rondo deal would work for us in the long run. We get a backcourt of Rondo & DD with Amir/TH/Gay up front and still have our first round pick to use in the summer. Perhaps we get lucky and manage to flip Gay for some other useful parts too. Makes you wonder.
I was thinking a deal like KL/DD for Rondo/Bogans.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 03:37 AM   #560 (permalink)
La Decima!!!!!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,223
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorsFan4Life View Post
I'm going to pretend that we never had a lead.

------------

Ed Davis went off today in his 2nd start for Zbo.

Code:
Ed Davis  21 PT  8-11 FG  5-11 FT  0-0 3P  12/3 RB  1 AS  2 BL  0 ST  1 TO  3 PF  32 MN   (Final, Suns)
Code:
Ed Davis   15.5 PT   .591 of 11.0 FG   .455 of 5.5 FT   -- 3P   10.0/3.0 RB  0.5 AS   1.0 BL   0.5 ST   1.0 TO   4.0 PF   31.0 MN   2/2 GS   (last 2 games)
Code:
Ed Davis   14.0 PT   .593 of 9.0 FG   .588 of 5.7 FT   -- 3P   9.0/3.0 RB  0.7 AS   1.7 BL   0.3 ST   0.7 TO   3.3 PF   28.7 MN   3/2 GS   (last 3 games)
I wish he'd get more playing time. He really deserves to go to a place where he has a shot at starting.
Yup. Could've been here with no $ spent on TH and no RG salary of about 35-40 million.
LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24