FINAL: Toronto 103 • Memphis 87

Chiggmo · 11-14-2013, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rene_13

I don't entirely disagree with you, but I think that this all should have been done a long time ago. It's a little too late to hit the reset button again. From a complete rebuild, when are we going to see a decent team show up again? Three years? I'll stick around, but many fans wont.

Ya I know man, and I already said I agreed with LX that it was too late already to start a rebuild, at least for this season. Also I extremely hate the way Masai has gone the way he has sitting on his hands and just waiting to see what happens, really stupid plan imo. You don't wait till the middle of a season to do something, we'll be too far into mediocrity by then. Oh well, most poeple have already anointed him a saviour so w/e, we'll see I suppose. I hope he turns this team around, just don't see it going anywhere without a full rebuild, and this was the year to do it.

Kriz · 11-14-2013, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rene_13

Treadmills right? Last time I checked, a treadmill was always in a forward motion. During the past what 5 years I've sat and watched a team that simply cannot even get into the playoffs. This is not a treadmill team, we have been horrible for half a decade, and getting into the playoffs would be a huge achievement for the franchise. I would have rather watched the past years of 6-8th seed playoffs teams than the junk I've had to deal with.

You're dam RIGHT!

**DanH** · 11-14-2013, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rene_13

Treadmills right? Last time I checked, a treadmill was always in a forward motion. During the past what 5 years I've sat and watched a team that simply cannot even get into the playoffs. This is not a treadmill team, we have been horrible for half a decade, and getting into the playoffs would be a huge achievement for the franchise. I would have rather watched the past years of 6-8th seed playoffs teams than the junk I've had to deal with.

I think you might be confused. A treadmill allows one to put in all the effort of running (making progress, forward motion) without any actual forward progress. Continually running in place.

Yeah, they've been crap. They've also been stagnant. Never bad enough to get a top pick (except Jonas), never good enough to do anything else.

The past few years have been awful, precisely because there was no concerted tanking effort. The effort to make the playoffs was put in, and they failed, and they got little in way of draft compensation for it.

creative1mm · 11-14-2013, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Dont get used to these kinds of wins. MEM has looked awful so far this year. There's no reason this game should sway peoples opinions one way or another to tank or not to tank.

but even an awful looking Memphis would beat a Raptors team.. heck they lost to Bobcats, Raps won because they played the rite way, and it was a convincing win at that

if we play like we won't be tanking material

jeffb · 11-14-2013, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creative1mm

but even an awful looking Memphis would beat a Raptors team.. heck they lost to Bobcats, Raps won because they played the rite way, and it was a convincing win at that

That and we have upgraded at the PG position.

torontomen · 11-14-2013, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stonezz

Gay showed up for a game finally, coincidentally the one against his former team.

which ,,, me off because he only shots well when he really cares...when pay check already in his pocket there is no thing for him to improve

Rene_13 · 11-14-2013, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanH

I think you might be confused. A treadmill allows one to put in all the effort of running (making progress, forward motion) without any actual forward progress. Continually running in place.

Yeah, they've been crap. They've also been stagnant. Never bad enough to get a top pick (except Jonas), never good enough to do anything else.

The past few years have been awful, precisely because there was no concerted tanking effort. The effort to make the playoffs was put in, and they failed, and they got little in way of draft compensation for it.

Whatever interpretation of the analogy we want to make. We haven't even been a treadmill team yet. For those who are labelling them this, or ascribing this to their team are in their part confused. As I previously said, they haven't even made the playoffs yet, but we're somehow in a perpetual state of mediocrity. Let's make the playoffs first and then start claiming we're some kind of treadmill team.

In terms of getting little by way of the draft, I'm still unsure how this year is guaranteed to be any different. Weren't we supposed to draft third in the Kyrie Irving draft, ended up lucky to snag Jonas at 5th. Historically, teams with the 3rd best odds have landed the first pick most often apparently. This hasn't worked out for us on two occasions. Same thing with the 2012 draft, we missed out on the ability to take a much needed SF based on the coin toss, and winning the last game of the season. I think we were awful enough to gain sufficient compensation for our tanking efforts, but the ping pong balls didn't go our way. I still believe it's a little too late to start the tank, but the GM has to decide that. We also had the 1st pick at took you know who. Let's not forget the ability to take a quality player with the 8th pick in the 04 draft. We also could have had Hibbert, and we didn't need to tank for him.

niggles · 11-14-2013, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rene_13

Whatever interpretation of the analogy we want to make. We haven't even been a treadmill team yet. For those who are labelling them this, or ascribing this to their team are in their part confused. As I previously said, they haven't even made the playoffs yet, but we're somehow in a perpetual state of mediocrity. Let's make the playoffs first and then start claiming we're some kind of treadmill team.

In terms of getting little by way of the draft, I'm still unsure how this year is guaranteed to be any different. Weren't we supposed to draft third in the Kyrie Irving draft, ended up lucky to snag Jonas at 5th. Historically, teams with the 3rd best odds have landed the first pick most often apparently. This hasn't worked out for us on two occasions. Same thing with the 2012 draft, we missed out on the ability to take a much needed SF based on the coin toss, and winning the last game of the season. I think we were awful enough to gain sufficient compensation for our tanking efforts, but the ping pong balls didn't go our way. I still believe it's a little too late to start the tank, but the GM has to decide that. We also had the 1st pick at took you know who. Let's not forget the ability to take a quality player with the 8th pick in the 04 draft. We also could have had Hibbert, and we didn't need to tank for him.

It was our pick, but we gave Indy the right to choose who they wanted, because we traded the pick in the Jermaine O'Neal deal. A bit more doo-doo BC left us.

moremilk · 11-14-2013, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX

Again - defense is extremely undervalued. JV is a major disappointment? I cannot wrap my head around that. I would expect him to be having a negative overall impact on games, and yet i'm not seeing where that is happening at all. What are you seeing? You think he's not improving? I don't get it. Even in a game like last night where he doesn't stuff any stat sheet, he shows a great awareness of how to help the team.

But you love Drummond, who thus far has played some really bad defense. You already have that guy pegged as an elite player of the future. Why not just watch the games? Why does everything have to be about extrapolating far into the future? And why does defense get discounted so readily?

my point was that building a defensive team around players that may be gone is futile. As far as JV, when I say major disappointment, I'm of course referring relative to my own expectations.I was definitely not expecting him to start the season the same way as he started last season,at the very least I was hoping to carry over his final month of the season.He is of course better that last season, but for a 2nd year player who was pegged as a great worker, not seeing a lot of results. Compare that with ross who was supposed to be the slacker, and I see a bigger improvement in his game.

Haven't watched drummond this year so I won't go there - but last season he was very impressive defensively. The reason I'm so high on him is because of his athletic abilities which are off the charts. He's that rare player who combines huge leaping with super quickness. JV doesn't have anything special, but he is above average in many areas. He will have to work a lot harder than Drummond to be as effective and must become a super-skilled big in order to become elite. I'm encouraged by his assists lately and I would like to see more steals from him. However, I'm not seeing stardom in the near future - and if we are to have any shot at doing anything with this core, he HAS to become a star center. Just above average won't cut it.

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