FINAL: Raptors 95 Bobcats 100 - Page 20
Old 01-22-2014, 03:36 PM   #381 (permalink)
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I have hard time believing coaches are telling him to pull up for so many j's I could be wrong though, because some of the plays are clearly designed for DD to take a long two
It is an option that requires him to make a decision. And the defense plays into that more than our coaches do. I do not see him making a lot of terrible decisions. He comes up against three defenders and will either pass or shoot, as that is all that is there. Too many times lately there has not been a lot of guys cutting or doing much to score easily off the pass. And opposing teams have been really good with their rotations. Trying to make them pay with some jumpers that could open up things on future possessions isn't such a bad way to go.

Butch Carter pointed out that when he plays on the left side, he does not have as many options for making the pass. In that respect, the coaches can tweak things a bit. Mostly there just needs to be the kind of inside game the offense is ultimately built around. All the bigs have had bad hands and poor finishing ability inside of late. Fix that and the reliance on the lesser quality jumpers as a team lessens dramatically.
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Old 01-22-2014, 04:05 PM   #382 (permalink)
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Demar went to the basket at the end of the last game. Twice. It looked to me like forcing his offense too much, and the results were not good. Now had someone been able to open the lane up for him a little more, with a screen or pin down or just needing to be guarded closely, it might have looked different.
I liked what he did there (although few possessions before that where quite dumb)
I think he got fouled on one of those but refs didn't call it and lost the handle on the other one. But imo it was the right choice. I'd much rather see him trying to do that more often
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Old 01-22-2014, 04:36 PM   #383 (permalink)
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I guess it is not as much character assassination as it is judging DeMar by a higher standard. And i think a little unfairly. There's no doubt there are good points in the criticisms, but insisting on the terribleness of his shots, as if he intends to do nothing but take terrible shots, while insisting other players are just in a slump and have otherwise been solid with their hearts in the right places, skews towards making one guy a scapegoat.
Fair enough. Certainly not my intention. But if DeMar wants to be a star in this league (and from his commentary I believe that is how he views himself), he'd better get used to be judged by a higher standard.

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Demar went to the basket at the end of the last game. Twice. It looked to me like forcing his offense too much, and the results were not good. Now had someone been able to open the lane up for him a little more, with a screen or pin down or just needing to be guarded closely, it might have looked different. I mean maybe he is just terrible, or maybe the team around him needs to continue to grow along with him.
Two shots is not a great sample size. The reality is that the bulk of the good things he does for the team happen when he drives the ball. He is wonderfully efficient if you look only at the drives, fouls he draws, and the kickouts off his penetration. Of course, you can't, and some semblance of mid-range game is necessary for that stuff to happen, but I'm not arguing for complete elimination of his game - just more balance. I'm not trying to say "DeMar is just terrible" - I'm saying he could be so much better, if not for certain tendencies. And I am by no means claiming the rest of the team is perfect. Just focusing on the topic I started on.

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I completely agree that ideally the shots are distributed more evenly. And that is why it is so essential that Jonas should stop killing his own confidence and put in an honest effort. Instead he has been obsessing on misses to the point where it is effecting everything else, including Amir's game (is he in a slump or are his legs dead from defending extremely well, only to have Jonas not boxing out and/or finishing the play with a rebound). Jonas showed he could matchup against Hibbert and Chandler, only to become completely braindead. Instead of a boost to his confidence he has ended up with a cloud over his head. That has left a big hole that has effected everyone. Rebounding does matter right? Funny how Demar has been grabbing around the same number of boards as him for a couple weeks now. That's not a great thing. And it means there is more pressure on the offense to hit shots, and that usually means less willingness to take shots on behalf of some players, and less success in hitting shots that get made when there is less pressure.
Yes, Jonas has had a rough few games. Acknowledged. But the reason it stands out so much is because he is usually much better. I'm willing to give him a few games to get back in the groove. I've been waiting for DD to stop chucking for 3 years.

As for that rebounding comment:

In the last two weeks (8 games), DD has averaged 5.6 TRB/36.

In the same time period, JV has averaged 13.3 TRB/36.

In no single game has DD outrebounded JV. In two games, DD matched JV in rebounds. In those two games, JV averaged 20.5 minutes. DD averaged 38 minutes. I think your issue with JV's rebounding is that he isn't played enough. Perhaps you should take it up with Casey. Unless you have a problem with 13.3 TRB/36, which would rank 6th in the league among players with over 200 minutes played.

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You need to look no further than Lowry last season, who in fact shot at a below average efficiency in the crunch. I can't quote you the exact numbers, i just know when i checked his performance on synergy at the end of the year, it showed a big drop-off in the pressure situations in fourth quarters. I can also remember quite a few shots where he took pull up 27 footers early in the shot clock. Now this season he has done much better. Mostly this team post Rudy has been about executing well. I would argue that DeMar and Kyle have consistently executed well. But it takes more than two guys to execute well when needed. Salmon is sorely missed. A confident Valanciunas is very sorely missed. He can slump all he wants, but at least play like you belong there, and help out where you can JV.
Yeah, last year was rough for Kyle. The years prior in his career and this entire year to date he has been far better. Again, agreed that JV and Amir need to step up.

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With pieces of the puzzle missing they are going to end up needing to take contested jumpers or forcing drives that aren't there. Without a doubt, the contested jumpers in situations where the whole offense is operating well is inexcusable and worthy of words like terrible. When just about everyone else but Greivous and Kyle is a little afraid of taking shots, because of the increased pressure on making them, then a few guys taking less than optimum shots are going to look worthy of more blame than they should be.
This is fair. I hope you'll recognize that I've been leveling these complaints against DD's game for a long while now, and they are not specifically directed at these last few games.
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Old 01-22-2014, 04:37 PM   #384 (permalink)
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He's still a mid-20 year old, so I think asking him to change his game and avoid the mid-range game is a very short-term view which would be detrimental to not only Demar, but the team as well since Demar is perhaps the only player with the ability to make those shots against elite competition (ie the jumper he hit against Paul George which was instrumental in beating Indiana). It's something he needs to get better at, not avoid
Yes. However, the fact that he has shown no improvement in efficiency from that range since his rookie year, and that he has always taken a majority of his shots from there, suggest that he's not going to get better at shooting them. He might, however, get better at not taking them.
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:02 PM   #385 (permalink)
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Yes. However, the fact that he has shown no improvement in efficiency from that range since his rookie year, and that he has always taken a majority of his shots from there, suggest that he's not going to get better at shooting them. He might, however, get better at not taking them.
It's a poor comparison to look at Demar's efficiency as a 4th, 5th option as a rookie where he really was only taking open shots, or even Demar as a 2nd option behind Bargnani and Gay where open looks were much more plentiful. For only 1 month has he been a number one option, and during that month the team has had success and growth that hasn't really been seen for 4-5 years now.

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Old 01-22-2014, 05:24 PM   #386 (permalink)
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What is kind of curious about this argument is that, statistically, the top players have much higher points per shot averages, and equally high usage as Derozan. Is it the coaches' fault that Derozan is forced to take (and miss) so many "tougher" shots and other premier players aren't?
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:37 PM   #387 (permalink)
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I agree that there needs to more balance. I think there has been good balance in the games they won. Balance both in the kinds of shots Demar takes and the shot distribution across the team. To me this is seeing old problems where improvements have arisen, primarily due to two disappointing losses, one of which was one of Demar's worst performances overall in some time. So i disagree over the idea that improvements are lacking or incremental. They are there and the team has benefitted. A good amount of the ball movement can be traced to the attention Demar receives. All will be good when they are able to score off defense again, and tweak things a bit.

Also - i recognize the rebound rate was clearly on Jonas' side, but i also realize that it should not be close considering the roles. Yes, jonas should be playing 36 minutes. He needs to stop taking himself out of games. And in the minutes he has had, he missed a lot of rebounding opportunities. Second chance points are piling up. He used to give those to us, now he gives them up. Again, i have no problem with him having a learning curve and hitting bad stretches. That doesn't mean he has to be braindead and make it impossible to be on the court for even 20 minutes. Boxing out is strictly about effort and having your head in the game. If that is missing so glaringly it is a real issue that needs correcting immediately.
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:37 PM   #388 (permalink)
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It's nobody's fault - they're just stats and the team is winning.

I don't think Derozan is in a class with Durant/Wade/Harden/Curry/Lebron/Melo etc.

He's trying to get there.

Alot of those guys also have a three point shot which creates more space; however, I like what Derozan is trying to do in patterning his game off of MJ/Kobe/Dwade.

In the playoffs, when the physicality increases and the defense is focused, it gets harder for the guys who rely on the one on one threes (Harden, Durant, Curry) to hit those shots, and their misses compound themselves. The three pointer can be a crutch that players fall in love with but leaves them when the going gets tough in the playoffs. The greatest playoff guards have historically had a solid mid-range game.

Maybe Derozan never gets to that level, maybe he does.

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Old 01-22-2014, 10:26 PM   #389 (permalink)
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I don't think Derozan is in a class with Durant/Wade/Harden/Curry/Lebron/Melo etc.

He's trying to get there.
And tonight he was there. Growth - it's a beautiful thing. Old problems are old problems, mostly. He'll always get defined by the missed jumpers to a degree I suspect. Tonight he excelled on both ends and made great decisions. He usually loses when he scores 30+. This was not about trying to win with offense. Now he just needs to be able to make the same good decisions against more tenacious defensive squads. Start getting some calls. Then he'll be in pretty good company.
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Old 01-22-2014, 10:48 PM   #390 (permalink)
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And tonight he was there. Growth - it's a beautiful thing. Old problems are old problems, mostly. He'll always get defined by the missed jumpers to a degree I suspect. Tonight he excelled on both ends and made great decisions. He usually loses when he scores 30+. This was not about trying to win with offense. Now he just needs to be able to make the same good decisions against more tenacious defensive squads. Start getting some calls. Then he'll be in pretty good company.
Completely agreed. This is the sort of effort (not production, I hardly expect him to average 40) he can put forth every night, and he'd be twice the player he's been to date if he did. This sort of game is exactly why it is so frustrating when he settles for contested jumpers - when he doesn't settle, he's pretty darn effective.
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