FINAL: Raptors 95 Bobcats 100 - Page 19
Old 01-22-2014, 01:22 PM   #361 (permalink)
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Old 01-22-2014, 01:24 PM   #362 (permalink)
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He doesn't often settle for long jumpers, more often then note he'll make contact with his defender and fight for space. Curling or flaring off the screen isn't a choice, but a decision made because of how the defense is playing him. He needs to hit that jumper off the flare if it's open - that's a good shot and opens up the curl if that is what the defense is taking away. If he's open and waiting for the defender - that is a bad choice and he has been doing quite a bit of that, again, he's not shooting the ball or making his moves with conviction lately. He's doing a fair amount of second guessing...and yet, he keeps making plays in other ways.

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Old 01-22-2014, 01:35 PM   #363 (permalink)
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He doesn't often settle for long jumpers, more often then note he'll make contact with his defender and fight for space. Curling or flaring off the screen isn't a choice, but a decision made because of how the defense is playing him. He needs to hit that jumper off the flare if it's open - that's a good shot and opens up the curl if that is what the defense is taking away. If he's open and waiting for the defender - that is a bad choice and he has been doing quite a bit of that, again, he's not shooting the ball or making his moves with conviction lately. He's doing a fair amount of second guessing...and yet, he keeps making plays in other ways.
It's a good shot if he makes it. He usually misses. That's the whole point.
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Old 01-22-2014, 01:38 PM   #364 (permalink)
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It's a good shot if he makes it. He usually misses. That's the whole point.
It's the correct shot to take if that is the set the Raptors are making and that how the defense plays it. The correct shot = the good shot in my books, make or miss.

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Old 01-22-2014, 01:39 PM   #365 (permalink)
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Thought these charts (of DD shots in last 30 days) could be interesting. Just for the record I'm not posting these regarding the discussion, just taking a look at shots that DD should avoid as much as possible.



points per shot

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Old 01-22-2014, 01:58 PM   #366 (permalink)
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Based on the chart it seems that he should take less j's from the right side especially right baseline. The problem is that bigger part (24.2%) of his shots are right side long 2's.
On the other hand he has much more succes on that left baseline jumper.

shots attempted



points per shot



FG%


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Old 01-22-2014, 02:25 PM   #367 (permalink)
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It's the correct shot to take if that is the set the Raptors are making and that how the defense plays it. The correct shot = the good shot in my books, make or miss.
See, at this point we start arguing the impact of coaching. And I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that my criticism is obviously at least partially leveled at Casey - what I call shot selection by DD could well be bad plays drawn up by the coach.

My point stands though - shots from there, regardless of the play, are bad shots. Blame the coach instead of DD if you want, but blame someone.
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Old 01-22-2014, 02:39 PM   #368 (permalink)
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Is it not Nick Nurse that should get the blame? Or does he only get the credit when the offense rolls?
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Old 01-22-2014, 02:42 PM   #369 (permalink)
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Is it not Nick Nurse that should get the blame? Or does he only get the credit when the offense rolls?
Sure, so long as we agree that there's something significant to blame someone for when it comes to DD's shot selection. I lean to blaming DeMar, but to each his own.
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Old 01-22-2014, 02:43 PM   #370 (permalink)
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See, at this point we start arguing the impact of coaching. And I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that my criticism is obviously at least partially leveled at Casey - what I call shot selection by DD could well be bad plays drawn up by the coach.

My point stands though - shots from there, regardless of the play, are bad shots. Blame the coach instead of DD if you want, but blame someone.
Mid range jumpers aren't bad shots - hitting those shots can brings big men out of the paint and opens up the drive, or brings other help perimeter defenders over opening up the spot-up three.

Those shots can be a very useful tool. Which why they have been apart of the game since Dr. Naismith first hoisted a peach basket.
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Old 01-22-2014, 02:45 PM   #371 (permalink)
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I have hard time believing coaches are telling him to pull up for so many j's I could be wrong though, because some of the plays are clearly designed for DD to take a long two
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Old 01-22-2014, 02:48 PM   #372 (permalink)
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Mid range jumpers aren't bad shots - hitting those shots can brings big men out of the paint and opens up the drive, or brings other help perimeter defenders over opening up the spot-up three.

Those shots can be a very useful tool. Which why they have been apart of the game since Dr. Naismith first hoisted a peach basket.
Completely agreed. Hence my dislike of DD, and his propensity to take too many of those shots (contested and long versions, rather than open and/or shorter ones) and miss them.
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Old 01-22-2014, 02:51 PM   #373 (permalink)
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I have hard time believing coaches are telling him to pull up for so many j's I could be wrong though, because some of the plays are clearly designed for DD to take a long two
I think you can blame the coaches for the catch-and-shoot jumpers. DD shoots 5.3 catch and shoot jumpers per game, hitting on 39.6% of them. Bad.

For the pull-up jumpers, you have to think the coaches would prefer ball movement and flow in the offense, so you can blame DD for those. DD shoots 7.2 pull up jumpers a game, hitting on 35.2% of them. Very bad.

So, lots of blame to go around, but I maintain that DD is a major culprit, and that the coaching staff wants him shooting catch-and-shoot jumpers and not pull-up jumpers.
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Old 01-22-2014, 02:53 PM   #374 (permalink)
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The good players figure out how to make winning plays. Derozan hasn't figured that out yet, because he thinks hitting the shot is the winning play, but the right pass to set someone else up for a the winning shot is a winning play. Could be on both Demar and Casey.
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Old 01-22-2014, 03:08 PM   #375 (permalink)
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Completely agreed. Hence my dislike of DD, and his propensity to take too many of those shots (contested and long versions, rather than open and/or shorter ones) and miss them.
Well - you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Need to shoot them to make them. I'm sure his propensity would be to take the open shorter ones if it was his decision alone.
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Old 01-22-2014, 03:13 PM   #376 (permalink)
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I think you can blame the coaches for the catch-and-shoot jumpers. DD shoots 5.3 catch and shoot jumpers per game, hitting on 39.6% of them. Bad.

For the pull-up jumpers, you have to think the coaches would prefer ball movement and flow in the offense, so you can blame DD for those. DD shoots 7.2 pull up jumpers a game, hitting on 35.2% of them. Very bad.

So, lots of blame to go around, but I maintain that DD is a major culprit, and that the coaching staff wants him shooting catch-and-shoot jumpers and not pull-up jumpers.
A pull-up jumper is a natural progression for somebody with a "fantastic" ability to drive the net. It's a skill learned by basketball players at a young age. To suggest that a pull-up jumper is always a mistake and that an NBA coach would be against a natural basketball fundamental is farfetched at best. A lot of those pull-ups are shot within the flow of the offense.

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Old 01-22-2014, 03:16 PM   #377 (permalink)
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The good players figure out how to make winning plays. Derozan hasn't figured that out yet, because he thinks hitting the shot is the winning play, but the right pass to set someone else up for a the winning shot is a winning play. Could be on both Demar and Casey.
He's made quite a few lately. That steal and slam against Charlotte is a winning play. He's been making more and more key plays in other ways over the past month.
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Old 01-22-2014, 03:22 PM   #378 (permalink)
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Please show me the character assassination.
I guess it is not as much character assassination as it is judging DeMar by a higher standard. And i think a little unfairly. There's no doubt there are good points in the criticisms, but insisting on the terribleness of his shots, as if he intends to do nothing but take terrible shots, while insisting other players are just in a slump and have otherwise been solid with their hearts in the right places, skews towards making one guy a scapegoat.

Demar went to the basket at the end of the last game. Twice. It looked to me like forcing his offense too much, and the results were not good. Now had someone been able to open the lane up for him a little more, with a screen or pin down or just needing to be guarded closely, it might have looked different. I mean maybe he is just terrible, or maybe the team around him needs to continue to grow along with him.

I completely agree that ideally the shots are distributed more evenly. And that is why it is so essential that Jonas should stop killing his own confidence and put in an honest effort. Instead he has been obsessing on misses to the point where it is effecting everything else, including Amir's game (is he in a slump or are his legs dead from defending extremely well, only to have Jonas not boxing out and/or finishing the play with a rebound). Jonas showed he could matchup against Hibbert and Chandler, only to become completely braindead. Instead of a boost to his confidence he has ended up with a cloud over his head. That has left a big hole that has effected everyone. Rebounding does matter right? Funny how Demar has been grabbing around the same number of boards as him for a couple weeks now. That's not a great thing. And it means there is more pressure on the offense to hit shots, and that usually means less willingness to take shots on behalf of some players, and less success in hitting shots that get made when there is less pressure.

You need to look no further than Lowry last season, who in fact shot at a below average efficiency in the crunch. I can't quote you the exact numbers, i just know when i checked his performance on synergy at the end of the year, it showed a big drop-off in the pressure situations in fourth quarters. I can also remember quite a few shots where he took pull up 27 footers early in the shot clock. Now this season he has done much better. Mostly this team post Rudy has been about executing well. I would argue that DeMar and Kyle have consistently executed well. But it takes more than two guys to execute well when needed. Salmon is sorely missed. A confident Valanciunas is very sorely missed. He can slump all he wants, but at least play like you belong there, and help out where you can JV.

With pieces of the puzzle missing they are going to end up needing to take contested jumpers or forcing drives that aren't there. Without a doubt, the contested jumpers in situations where the whole offense is operating well is inexcusable and worthy of words like terrible. When just about everyone else but Greivous and Kyle is a little afraid of taking shots, because of the increased pressure on making them, then a few guys taking less than optimum shots are going to look worthy of more blame than they should be.
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Old 01-22-2014, 03:23 PM   #379 (permalink)
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A pull-up jumper is a natural progression for somebody with a "fantastic" ability to drive the net. It's a skill learned by basketball players at a young age. To suggest that a pull-up jumper is always a mistake and that an NBA coach would be against a natural basketball fundamental is farfetched at best. A lot of those pull-ups are shot within the flow of the offense.
When did I ever suggest such a thing? Did you see the percentages I posted along with the totals?

The problem is not that DeMar takes too many jumpers. The problem is that he takes too many shots that he is bad at shooting. They just happen to be jumpers. The best players in the game are the best not because they take pull up shots but because they MAKE pull up shots. DeMar does one but not the other. So he should stop (not entirely, but reduce to a more reasonable number of attempts).
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Old 01-22-2014, 03:32 PM   #380 (permalink)
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When did I ever suggest such a thing? Did you see the percentages I posted along with the totals?

The problem is not that DeMar takes too many jumpers. The problem is that he takes too many shots that he is bad at shooting. They just happen to be jumpers. The best players in the game are the best not because they take pull up shots but because they MAKE pull up shots. DeMar does one but not the other. So he should stop (not entirely, but reduce to a more reasonable number of attempts).
He's still a mid-20 year old, so I think asking him to change his game and avoid the mid-range game is a very short-term view which would be detrimental to not only Demar, but the team as well since Demar is perhaps the only player with the ability to make those shots against elite competition (ie the jumper he hit against Paul George which was instrumental in beating Indiana). It's something he needs to get better at, not avoid

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