FINAL: Raptors 95 Bobcats 100 - Page 18
Old 01-22-2014, 09:39 AM   #341 (permalink)
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He just needs to make his move and shoot with more convinction. He's pumpfaking to much - he's actually shooting the ball like he's worried about his efficiency - worried about something. He needs to explode into his shots and just play ball.

He's not playing well - yet he's still making big plays. You can go back to every game we've played and see 1 or 2 big plays that Demar has made down the stretch, along with the 1 or 2 plays where he doesn't look confident in what he's doing.

But he's hardly just coming down and chucking up shots.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:46 AM   #342 (permalink)
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You're comparing the mid-range jumper to full court heaves?
Yes and no. They are obviously different, but your logic was completely flawed. The point was to show that being league average at a shot doesn't mean you should be taking it, or that you taking it is a good thing.

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Demar's mid-range game was good enough to win 7of8 games and 9of11 games and have the Raptors in first place in the Atlantic. It was good enough for road wins against Dallas and OKC, and a big home win against Indiana.

It's just a really wierd witch hunt to be on - trying so hard to prove that Demar is a bad player.

He hasn't realized his potential yet - I think he's getting close, but he has another big push in him. It will be exciting to see what his character shows in the playoffs. Maybe that's where he falls.

Trying to say he's bad at everything is just really whiny.
I'm not trying to say he's bad at everything - I'm saying he's particularly skilled, a great driver, and doesn't do what he's good at. I'm also saying he is mediocre-to-below average at rebounding and passing. Don't misrepresent my argument. I think he is bad at decision making, and not good enough in other areas to make up for that, especially considering his role and pay grade.

Good enough to win 9 of 11 games. Yes.

As LX pointed out, DD is not the reason we're on this cold streak (he's not helping, but the woeful frontcourt play is the main problem). Nor was he the reason we went on the winning streak. But fair enough. Let's look at his midrange shooting during that streak.

His mid-range WAS good enough for that streak. Because HE was on a hot streak too. He shot 45% from 16+ feet on midrange shots during that streak. If he shot that percentage year round, his midrange game wouldn't be a problem, it would be an asset a la Aldridge. But he doesn't shoot like that consistently, does he. He shoots much worse than that, and it's a problem.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:55 AM   #343 (permalink)
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Yes and no. They are obviously different, but your logic was completely flawed. The point was to show that being league average at a shot doesn't mean you should be taking it, or that you taking it is a good thing.
Flaw in my logic? I think you lack an organic understanding of how teams actually get shots in the flow of the game. The mid-range jumper isn't a mistake. It's not the equivalent of a full-court heave.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:56 AM   #344 (permalink)
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As LX pointed out, DD is not the reason we're on this cold streak.
Hey - I pointed that out as well. Why don't I get credit?

If he can replicate that hot streak in the playoffs we're hunky-dory.
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Old 01-22-2014, 10:17 AM   #345 (permalink)
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You guys are really reaching if you're blaming this losing streak on our 21 year old center.

Shows how un-ready this team is, if we are that dependent on him.
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Old 01-22-2014, 10:19 AM   #346 (permalink)
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Since the Gay trade, Demar is shooting 41%;

In games where he shot over 41%, we are 7-6
In games where he shot under 41%, we are 7-2

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Old 01-22-2014, 11:17 AM   #347 (permalink)
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You guys are really reaching if you're blaming this losing streak on our 21 year old center.

Shows how un-ready this team is, if we are that dependent on him.
Our front starting front court year is getting outplayed. Amir Johnson had a good December, but he is playing like shit in January and November. Remember he was removed from the starting line-up earlier in the season. Sullinger had a career night, Gasol and the Duke kid were shredding Amir and Jonas, and Jefferson put up 22 and 19:

Amir Johnson

C- (B+) A great December saves him from a worse grade. Mr. Dependable has not been himself this season and has had serious dips in his play in November and January.

Toronto Raptors mid-season report card | Raptors | Sports | Toronto Sun

Where's the fight? They are too inconsistent to make any noise. Trade Amir for Taj Gibson or Faried where they battle every night or replace him in the starting line-up with Patterson. He would make a good pick-and-roll partner with Vasquez against the second unit scrubs.

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Old 01-22-2014, 11:43 AM   #348 (permalink)
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Since the Gay trade, Demar is shooting 41%;

In games where he shot over 41%, we are 7-6
In games where he shot under 41%, we are 7-2
I would argue you see more correlation with how much DD shoots.

Since the Gay trade:

In games where he shot over 17.5 2FGA, we are 2-5
In games where he shot under 17.5 2FGA, we are 12-3.

Chuck less, DD, and we win more.
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Old 01-22-2014, 11:45 AM   #349 (permalink)
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Flaw in my logic? I think you lack an organic understanding of how teams actually get shots in the flow of the game. The mid-range jumper isn't a mistake. It's not the equivalent of a full-court heave.
The mid-range jumper, taken by a player who is not elite at mid-range jumpers, is a mistake. That's why the best defenses in the league force their opponents to take them.
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Old 01-22-2014, 11:55 AM   #350 (permalink)
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Amir kind of loses his identity when he goes up against role-playing stretch fours like Kelley and McRoberts. He cheats a little to much and isn't very disciplined.

I though he played great against Love, and I would bet money he has another great game against Nowitzki.
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Old 01-22-2014, 11:57 AM   #351 (permalink)
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The mid-range jumper, taken by a player who is not elite at mid-range jumpers, is a mistake. That's why the best defenses in the league force their opponents to take them.
The best defenses in the league force their opponent to take them because they take-away the three point shot and the lay-up. It's not a mistake, it's a necessity.

Again you are using the correct word - force - as opposed to give; I just think you're failing to understand the significance of that word.

Last edited by bjjs; 01-22-2014 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 01-22-2014, 12:41 PM   #352 (permalink)
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I would argue you see more correlation with how much DD shoots.

Since the Gay trade:

In games where he shot over 17.5 2FGA, we are 2-5
In games where he shot under 17.5 2FGA, we are 12-3.

Chuck less, DD, and we win more.
Since the Gay trade; Demar has averaged 18.4 shots a game.

In games where he shot over 18.4 shots, we are 4-6;

BUT: In those 6 losses, Demar has shot 44%, whereas the rest of the starting lineup has shot 40%. Kyle Lowry shot 42.5% in these games.

In only two of those games did he shoot a lower percentage then the rest of the starting lineup; the OT loss against Charlotte, and the Lakers. He shot a respectable 42% in both games.

Shoot more...dede...?????

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Old 01-22-2014, 12:44 PM   #353 (permalink)
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Huh. This is timely. This was posted this morning.

DeRozan's Mid-Range Fetish | Raptors Republic: ESPN TrueHoop Network BlogRaptors Republic: ESPN TrueHoop Network Blog

It's a good read and addressed some of the "team offense" concerns noted here better I think than I did.
Great read! Thanks
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Old 01-22-2014, 12:48 PM   #354 (permalink)
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Since the Gay trade; Demar has averaged 18.4 shots a game.

In games where he shot over 18.4 shots, we are 4-6;

BUT: In those 6 losses, Demar has shot 44%, whereas the rest of the starting lineup has shot 40%.

In only two of those games did he shoot a lower percentage then the rest of the starting lineup; the OT loss against Charlotte, and the Lakers. He shot a respectable 42% in both games.

Shoot more...dede...?????
It seems like you are still missing the point.
It's not about him shooting bad % it's about him taking too much 2pointers. He shoots less 2's we win more because he chooses more efficient shots instead
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Old 01-22-2014, 12:51 PM   #355 (permalink)
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It seems like you are still missing the point.
It's not about him shooting bad % it's about him taking too much 2pointers. He shoots less 2's we win more because he chooses more efficient shots instead
I hope he choo-choo-chooses some layups because it really is that easy right. I hope Dallas is on board.
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Old 01-22-2014, 01:04 PM   #356 (permalink)
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I hope he choo-choo-chooses some layups because it really is that easy right. I hope Dallas is on board.
They don't have to be. That's the point. He's shown a fantastic ability to get into the lane and draw fouls - and he could be a powerful offensive force if he focused more on that aspect of his game. If they want to stop his layups and short jumpers, they have to foul him. Or he could do that for them, by taking terrible long twos.

And if you think 42% is respectable in any way (keep in mind he doesn't hit 3's), I don't know what to say to that.
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Old 01-22-2014, 01:05 PM   #357 (permalink)
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I hope he choo-choo-chooses some layups because it really is that easy right. I hope Dallas is on board.
Yea I do hope that he is not going to chuck bunch of long 2's with plenty of time on the shot clock
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Old 01-22-2014, 01:15 PM   #358 (permalink)
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I don't see Demar settling very often, more often then not he's creating contact with his defender and fighting for space before he shoots, so suggesting he prefers long twos over short ones is a videogame-esque type of view which ignores the actual games themselves and gives no credence to the fact that there are actual living, breathing, decision making defenders on the floor.

Every player takes bad shots. Demar has definitely taken one or two bad long twos going down the stretch of each game in our latest slump, but alot of that has to do with the fact that the team as a group isn't playing well.

When teams are slumping, players take bad shots. When teams are playing well, players take bad shots. But just because it's a mid-range jumper doesn't make it a bad shot.

It's easiest just to say - you don't like his game. Which is fine.

Last edited by bjjs; 01-22-2014 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 01-22-2014, 01:17 PM   #359 (permalink)
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Yea I do hope that he is not going to chuck bunch of long 2's with plenty of time on the shot clock
Me to
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Old 01-22-2014, 01:22 PM   #360 (permalink)
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I don't see Demar settling very often, more often then not he's creating contact with his defender and fighting for space before he shoots, so suggesting he prefers long twos over short ones is a videogame-esque type of view which ignores the actual games themselves.

Every player takes bad shots. Demar has definitely taken one or two bad long twos going down the stretch of each game in our latest slump, but alot of that has to do with the fact that the team as a group isn't playing well.

When teams are slumping, players take bad shots. Players are forced to take bad shots.

It's easiest just to say - you don't like his game. Which is fine.
DeMar was taking bad shots when they were winning too. He just hit more of them, at a rate he has shown he cannot sustain.

He OFTEN settles for long jumpers without attempting to drive into the paint. Almost always really. He does a good job coming off a screen of attempting the drive, and kicking out if there's nothing there. But much more often he flares off the screen for a long two, or catches the ball and waits, and the defense sets, and he forces his iso game and ends up with a crappy contested jumper.

It IS easy to say I don't like his game. In the interest of proper discussion I've also stated why.
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