FINAL: Los Angeles Lakers 112 Toronto Raptors 106 - Page 26
Old 01-19-2014, 07:59 PM   #501 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

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think would take a big stretch to say hayes gives you more offense than evans. The problem with hayes is his strength is for naught when anybody can shoot over him without any troubles. I'd like hayes more than evans against smaller, but stronger players who don't have range. Guys like howard or jordan or drummond - he can have more success in those scenarios. Somebody like pekovic or jefferson will score at will against him, even if he can push them a bit outside their preferred space.
Mehhh, i've seen him score around the rim in traffic since being here and he's 100% at the FT line. Not saying he's much better but i'm pretty confident in saying he's a little better offensively.....no matter small the diference may be. lol
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Old 01-19-2014, 09:36 PM   #502 (permalink)
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We didnt lose because Salmons wasnt in or because we shot too many 3s, we lost because the starting 5 didn't play defence especially the 2 bigs. JV was on the bench early and when he did play he just got abused by Gasol. We aren't winning too many games giving up 110 points.
True enough. There were good stretches, but not enough at all, especially from the starters.
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Old 01-19-2014, 09:48 PM   #503 (permalink)
is praying Ross makes us forget Drummond so people stop whining

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We didnt lose because Salmons wasnt in or because we shot too many 3s, we lost because the starting 5 didn't play defence especially the 2 bigs. JV was on the bench early and when he did play he just got abused by Gasol. We aren't winning too many games giving up 110 points.
True enough, but we killed them on the boards, shot a higher precentage and had 30 assists. Ultimately even with the poor defense we should have won this game if we went inside. Let's face it, the Lakers are dead last at defending the paint, yet we stayed on the perimiter and only had a grand total of 11 FTA........we go to the line 20 times and we win this game.


Amir: 0 FTA
Valanciunas: 0 FTA


When your starting Bigs don't go to line even once against the worst team in the NBA at defending the paint, the wrong plan was attempted or the players pussied out.


For the month of January Amir is attempting 2.3 FTA per game......unacceptable imo.
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Old 01-19-2014, 10:04 PM   #504 (permalink)
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yeah, I've said this as well - amir really gets a pass from the fans. He's always been up and down like this, and there were always excuses for him. Plus, with Bargnani in town, he was pretty safe ... When focused and engaged, he's really good - good enough that even these ho-hum games can't alter his stats.

The main problem with this team going forward is, at least for the foreseeable future, we have very, very small margin for error. We can play like a 50 wins team, but to actually win anything close to that, we have to be healthy and play 75 games a year at that intensity (or more ...). And, in the playoffs, where the really good teams really up their intensity, we won't have much room to increase ours. We can beat almost any team outside top 10, but we won't stand a chance against a focused elite team like miami or the pacers.

And, since tanking is not an option anymore, plan B is to make some noise in the playoffs and raise our profile a bit - if we can't achieve that either, the summer will not be a happy one.
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Old 01-19-2014, 10:27 PM   #505 (permalink)
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Something something terrible. I despise watching basketball like that. Basketball like the first 5 minutes of the 3rd Q? That could easily have been played all night if the team just freaking felt like it? Yeah I like that basketball.

Jonas was rough (somehow played great defence at that start of the 3rd Q, but forgot to the rest of the game), Amir was boneheaded, DeMar was his usual chucks self until it was too late, the refs were awful but it shouldn't have been close enough to matter.

Frankly I feel worse about this loss than the BOS loss. Between the two, really starting to doubt this team has what it takes to take that next step. I hate that I am unable to buy in, believe that there's more good than bad here, but I try, and the team just gives me more and more reasons not to. Stupid basketball. Stupid, lazy, incoherent basketball, and it makes me sick.

Attaboy Hayes. Only guy worth cheering for tonight.

Oh, and Dwane? The next time you run an offensive set through DeMar instead of Lowry with the game on the line, you should be fired. Every time Lowry touched the ball down the stretch we scored, and out of a timeout the best you come up with is an iso-DeRozan play?
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Old 01-19-2014, 10:36 PM   #506 (permalink)
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yeah, I've said this as well - amir really gets a pass from the fans. He's always been up and down like this, and there were always excuses for him. Plus, with Bargnani in town, he was pretty safe ... When focused and engaged, he's really good - good enough that even these ho-hum games can't alter his stats.

The main problem with this team going forward is, at least for the foreseeable future, we have very, very small margin for error. We can play like a 50 wins team, but to actually win anything close to that, we have to be healthy and play 75 games a year at that intensity (or more ...). And, in the playoffs, where the really good teams really up their intensity, we won't have much room to increase ours. We can beat almost any team outside top 10, but we won't stand a chance against a focused elite team like miami or the pacers.

And, since tanking is not an option anymore, plan B is to make some noise in the playoffs and raise our profile a bit - if we can't achieve that either, the summer will not be a happy one.
Here's an idea - trade DeMar and Lowry while the allstar talk is still going (a couple more games like this and it won't be), move Amir, fire Casey, tank hard now, maybe get into the top 7. Yes, it would have been better to do it earlier (as some people suggested) but that is by no means a reason to lock yourself onto a path you don't believe in. And I didn't believe in this team a week ago (although I sure enjoyed the high), and you'd better believe I've got zero faith in them now.

I said after the BOS loss that these things happen. And that bouncing back is what good teams do. And tonight was the opposite of bouncing back. And yes, even great teams go through stretches. But bad teams go through good stretches too, and I'm inclined to believe we are seeing the real team now, and not during that winning stretch.

I'm not saying they are terrible, I'm just saying I could see them finishing out the year against weak competition, placing 4th, and losing in 5 games in the playoffs. And where does that leave us? And what has to go right for anything better than that? Pretty much everything.

Alternatively, I could get on board with a win now strategy where DeMar gets moved for an actually useful piece. But my preferred option should be pretty clear.
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Old 01-19-2014, 10:44 PM   #507 (permalink)
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Here's an idea - trade DeMar and Lowry while the allstar talk is still going (a couple more games like this and it won't be), move Amir, fire Casey, tank hard now, maybe get into the top 7. Yes, it would have been better to do it earlier (as some people suggested) but that is by no means a reason to lock yourself onto a path you don't believe in. And I didn't believe in this team a week ago (although I sure enjoyed the high), and you'd better believe I've got zero faith in them now.

I said after the BOS loss that these things happen. And that bouncing back is what good teams do. And tonight was the opposite of bouncing back. And yes, even great teams go through stretches. But bad teams go through good stretches too, and I'm inclined to believe we are seeing the real team now, and not during that winning stretch.

I'm not saying they are terrible, I'm just saying I could see them finishing out the year against weak competition, placing 4th, and losing in 5 games in the playoffs. And where does that leave us? And what has to go right for anything better than that? Pretty much everything.

Alternatively, I could get on board with a win now strategy where DeMar gets moved for an actually useful piece. But my preferred option should be pretty clear.
Being in a real race for a good playoff seed, even if we get the 7th or 8th seed, and making the playoffs is by now, leagues ahead of whatever tanking has to offer. This should have been clear two weeks ago, Dan. There's no 7th pick for us. We'd be lucky to get 11th.
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Old 01-19-2014, 11:22 PM   #508 (permalink)
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Being in a real race for a good playoff seed, even if we get the 7th or 8th seed, and making the playoffs is by now, leagues ahead of whatever tanking has to offer. This should have been clear two weeks ago, Dan. There's no 7th pick for us. We'd be lucky to get 11th.
Yup I gotta agree. We would have to loose 99% of the rest of our games to even creep into top 7
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Old 01-19-2014, 11:34 PM   #509 (permalink)
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Here's an idea - trade DeMar and Lowry while the allstar talk is still going (a couple more games like this and it won't be), move Amir, fire Casey, tank hard now, maybe get into the top 7. Yes, it would have been better to do it earlier (as some people suggested) but that is by no means a reason to lock yourself onto a path you don't believe in. And I didn't believe in this team a week ago (although I sure enjoyed the high), and you'd better believe I've got zero faith in them now.

I said after the BOS loss that these things happen. And that bouncing back is what good teams do. And tonight was the opposite of bouncing back. And yes, even great teams go through stretches. But bad teams go through good stretches too, and I'm inclined to believe we are seeing the real team now, and not during that winning stretch.

I'm not saying they are terrible, I'm just saying I could see them finishing out the year against weak competition, placing 4th, and losing in 5 games in the playoffs. And where does that leave us? And what has to go right for anything better than that? Pretty much everything.

Alternatively, I could get on board with a win now strategy where DeMar gets moved for an actually useful piece. But my preferred option should be pretty clear.
that's just cruel ....
was only getting used to the idea that tanking is gone

I don't see it - at this point tanking is just not possible. Even if we were to do what you said, by the time we trade them all, we have 25 wins. There will be at least 5 teams who won't get to 25 period. We'd probably end up with a top 10 pick, and, frankly, it's not inconceivable we end up in the 13-14 range even if we don't trade anybody. We're still due a streak of injuries.

But I do agree with trading lowry and demar for the right deal, if they make the all star game. What Philly did with holiday was pure genious. The guy barely made it (undeservedly too) to one all star and they sold him as a young, up and coming all star PG. They got the guy who was supposed to be #1 in the draft + a probably top 10 pick in the next draft. That's insane value for someone like jrue who is a solid, but not that rare talent.

I think this is valuable especially if we were to trade demar for picks. We will take a minor hit this season (wondering how big the impact would be really), but in the long run, we'd get picks, max cap space even if we sign a good MLE level replacement for him and just set our team in a better position.

Maybe one day demar will make us sorry, but I've argued for 5-6 years against trading Bargnani for that reason and I'm not willing to make the same mistake again.
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Old 01-19-2014, 11:39 PM   #510 (permalink)
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Too may 3's meng. 9-30 (30%)
When the Blazers lose that's the most telling stat, bricks from beyond. Especially against a team that is low on shot blockers like the Lakers. Quit launching bombs. Play Raptor basketball.
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Old 01-19-2014, 11:39 PM   #511 (permalink)
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as for these two losses being an indicator for anything, I'm pretty sure they're not. Playing hard and playing hard every game are hugely different things and nobody can do the latter. Just can't do it over 82 games. It's worrying that it happened twice in a week, but not overly so. With all the talk about how good we are, it's hard for players to remember that they stunk only a few weeks ago. They're not magically transformed into superstars now, it's playing hard that did it.

losing 8 of the next 12 though - that would be a major red flag. We have to beat teams like charlotte, denver, sacramento or utah 80% of the time to justify our ambitions - just going .500 against them won't cut it anymore. And it should be clear by now that only 100% effort on D can get it done for this group, there won't be any shortcuts to the playoffs.
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Old 01-20-2014, 01:10 AM   #512 (permalink)
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We're 5 wins out of 7th pick, less than halfway through the season. It's insane to suggest that we "can't" get a high draft pick. And frankly top 10 is far better than late lotto and very achievable.

If we dawdle and play .500 ball for another month before pulling the trigger it's a lot harder.
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Old 01-20-2014, 01:41 AM   #513 (permalink)
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2 losses and we're back to the tank?

Yeesh.
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Old 01-20-2014, 02:05 AM   #514 (permalink)
threes and free throws

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Too may 3's meng. 9-30 (30%)
When the Blazers lose that's the most telling stat, bricks from beyond. Especially against a team that is low on shot blockers like the Lakers. Quit launching bombs. Play Raptor basketball.
Do you see that Dan? Toby wasn't being sarcastic. When was the last time you could say that about the team?

Unless Masai gets blown away, I really don't see Lowry, Amir, or DeMar for that matter, being traded. To finally give these guys a taste of success as a cohesive unit and then completely destroy that chemistry; it could very easily backfire and turn our young players against us. They deserve a shot this season.
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:26 AM   #515 (permalink)
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This is the same organization that just spent $100 million dollars to pick up 2 soccer players in a league that has a $3 million dollar cap. They are just as likely to overpay and pay luxury tax for player(s) to add to this core by 2016 as they are to sell high for picks.

In other words, to pay for the supposed right guys to add a layer of talent in and above the current core. I do laugh at Butch Carter saying Lebron may come here, but I know they will be in the mix with large sums for free agents and teams selling off assets.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:17 AM   #516 (permalink)
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2 losses and we're back to the tank?

Yeesh.
There is no unified 'we'.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:25 AM   #517 (permalink)
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2 losses and we're back to the tank?

Yeesh.
I guess if you wanted to be fair you would recognize that I never got off the tank.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:26 AM   #518 (permalink)
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Do you see that Dan? Toby wasn't being sarcastic. When was the last time you could say that about the team?

Unless Masai gets blown away, I really don't see Lowry, Amir, or DeMar for that matter, being traded. To finally give these guys a taste of success as a cohesive unit and then completely destroy that chemistry; it could very easily backfire and turn our young players against us. They deserve a shot this season.
I have zero problem with what you stated here, what is likely to happen, or what the players deserve. All true. Has zero impact on my opinion of the correct course of action for the team though.
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:59 AM   #519 (permalink)
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We really have to focus on the record after the Rudy trade, because that is what's on the floor now.. we were 6-12 at the time and playing much better.. yea we are 1 game over.. but the way we are playing if we keep it up we will soon be 6-10 games over

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Old 01-20-2014, 11:05 AM   #520 (permalink)
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We really have to focus on the record before after the Rudy trade, because that is what's on the floor now.. we were 6-12 at the time and playing much better.. don't let our 1 game over .500 record fool you, all these teams below us I think we are better then
All those teams below us. Probably true for a good number of them.

Brooklyn though? What about the rest of the teams right behind us?

Last 10 games:

TOR 6-4
BKN 7-3
NYK 6-4
CHI 7-3

Hardly separating ourselves from the pack recently... And trending in the wrong direction of late.
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