Feschuk: Raptors should focus on winning, not whining
Old 04-09-2010, 12:54 AM   #1 (permalink)
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“Because of where we play, we don’t get the attention of other teams,” Bosh told Marc J. Spears of Yahoo.com in a column that was presumably reported before Bosh was lost for the balance of the regular season with his facial injuries.

A couple of questions for Bosh: Is it crazy to suggest it’s not because of where you play that you and your teammates don’t get the same amount of attention as other teams? Couldn’t it be because of how you’ve played — i.e. without highlight-reel appeal and with a combined winning percentage of .458 in the five straight seasons in which you’ve been named an all-star? (The answers, by the way, are no and yes. Bosh has been a good ambassador for Toronto, but he should understand that geography is largely irrelevant in matters of celebrity. There was no bigger NBA star than Vince Carter when Carter was in full bloom a decade ago. And Carter had it all, the endorsements and the nightly ESPN-driven drooling, while based in this little hinterland that passes for something like the fourth largest city in the NBA).

And a heads-up to Calderon: They’re booing because you and your teammates, no matter how this thing ends up, are en route to yet another season of underachievement. They’re booing because they expected more from their GQ GM, their free-agent-to-be of an all-star and, to get specific, from you.
LINK - Toronto Star
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Old 04-09-2010, 12:58 AM   #2 (permalink)
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LINK - Toronto Star
very true...thank you haha
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:07 AM   #3 (permalink)
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love this article, precise and truthful
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:11 AM   #4 (permalink)
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great read
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:18 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I was glad to jose get slammed for being a baby,

jose contract is just as bad as Turkoglu, the difference is the raps are geting the blame for not geting turk going where as jose just sucks and everyone knows it
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:26 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Oh how just last year Jose was our borderline all-star.
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:51 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Oh how just last year Jose was our borderline all-star.
if only he cud return to that... i kinda missed when we had jermaine o'neal cause he was a gritty mofo
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Old 04-09-2010, 11:48 AM   #8 (permalink)
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And a heads-up to Calderon: They’re booing because you and your teammates, no matter how this thing ends up, are en route to yet another season of underachievement. They’re booing because they expected more from their GQ GM, their free-agent-to-be of an all-star and, to get specific, from you.

Oh calderon, if you really think that air ball was the reason for the boos then shame on you
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Old 04-09-2010, 12:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
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That pretty much tells it like it is.

Since i have slammed down to reality (i.e. since i started hating Raptor ball), i really appreciate this Feschuk piece.

I used to be down on the guy for years, but maybe it was because i was still clinging onto some fake optimism.
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Old 04-09-2010, 03:18 PM   #10 (permalink)
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That pretty much tells it like it is.

Since i have slammed down to reality (i.e. since i started hating Raptor ball), i really appreciate this Feschuk piece.

I used to be down on the guy for years, but maybe it was because i was still clinging onto some fake optimism.
What has pessimism done for you lately? fake optimism is much better than straight pessimism... a fan yelling, something inspiring and real would in effect be much more inspiring to a player than saying "BOOOOOO, YOU"RE THE WORST" ... REGARDLESS of it's initial benefits of pissing the player off (playing better in spite) will in effect be counter-productive. Everyone needs your optimism, Feschuk is just reporting his opinion.
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Old 04-09-2010, 03:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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What has pessimism done for you lately? fake optimism is much better than straight pessimism... a fan yelling, something inspiring and real would in effect be much more inspiring to a player than saying "BOOOOOO, YOU"RE THE WORST" ... REGARDLESS of it's initial benefits of pissing the player off (playing better in spite) will in effect be counter-productive. Everyone needs your optimism, Feschuk is just reporting his opinion.
The players don't seem to give a fuck 80% of the time, so why should we?
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Old 04-09-2010, 03:30 PM   #12 (permalink)
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80% of the players don't seem to give a fuck 80% of the time, so why should we?
Fixed.
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:25 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I still think too many fans get off on being miserable and bringing their self-perpetuating prophecies to bear. This was still a far better season than last season, with a large number of excellent home dates (within which fancy was lucky enough to pick one of the worst).

The comparison to Vince is off-base. Vince did not do any more winning than Bosh. I'd guess less actually. But he was certainly full of highlight material, and of course he won the slam dunk contest. Such is the nature of the coverage of the sport. That hardly means any of that shit was worthy of all the attention. I can remember too many games where Vince turned it on like crazy for a quarter or two, and then cruised to a stupid loss.

That's not to say that criticism should not be applied to these guys. There should be plenty of that. But Feschuk always veers away from honest, constructive criticism, and instead feeds the anger and bitchiness that Toronto fans love to hang onto.
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:47 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I still think too many fans get off on being miserable and bringing their self-perpetuating prophecies to bear. This was still a far better season than last season, with a large number of excellent home dates (within which fancy was lucky enough to pick one of the worst).

The comparison to Vince is off-base. Vince did not do any more winning than Bosh. I'd guess less actually. But he was certainly full of highlight material, and of course he won the slam dunk contest. Such is the nature of the coverage of the sport. That hardly means any of that shit was worthy of all the attention. I can remember too many games where Vince turned it on like crazy for a quarter or two, and then cruised to a stupid loss.

That's not to say that criticism should not be applied to these guys. There should be plenty of that. But Feschuk always veers away from honest, constructive criticism, and instead feeds the anger and bitchiness that Toronto fans love to hang onto.
I agree with your post on a couple of levels. First off, I think you're right about some people enjoying the misery. And, yeah, some people might be getting off on watching their prophecies become a reality. Any time I've got a bad feeling about things, I immediately think "shit, I hope I'm wrong about this one", since I care more about seeing my team win than I do about saying "ha, called it! I knew it!"

Anyways, I agree with your VC comments, too. From one perspective, a fan could say Carter had more success, since VC won a playoff series. However, that is irrelevant to the main point about winning being enough to get attention. Carter was getting substantial publicity during his second season, and the Raps still hadn't even made the playoffs yet. And that is a FACT. You nailed Feschuk on that. Shortly after the 2000 slam dunk contest, NBC sports changed its Sunday schedule to cover a Raps game against the Phoenix Suns. The Raps were barely above .500 at the time. It was about the glitz and glam of VC. It had very little - IF ANYTHING - to do with the Raptors and their record. The game got solid ratings because of VC's particular individual abilities. VC came through with an exciting performance in that game, scoring 51 points. The Raps barely won, and it didn't really matter if they won. People were watching to see what VC would do. After that, NBC covered more Raptors game. They hadn't even won a playoff game yet and the national schedule was changing for VC. Man, I wish MacGrady had stayed. The organization's exposure in the American market would have kept growing.
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Old 04-09-2010, 05:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I disagree about Vince turning it off often. His latter years, maybe being overcautious about his injuries. But in his earlier years, no, never.

He averaged 28/6/6. He was not 100 times as athletic as Lebron is or anything, in fact, aside from jumping, i'd say he's a LOT less athletic. And Lebron is averaging 30/7/7? I'm sure you'll agree he doesnt take any time off being lazy during the season.

You don't average those numbers over a whole season without working hard.
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Old 04-09-2010, 06:08 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I disagree about Vince turning it off often. His latter years, maybe being overcautious about his injuries. But in his earlier years, no, never.

He averaged 28/6/6. He was not 100 times as athletic as Lebron is or anything, in fact, aside from jumping, i'd say he's a LOT less athletic. And Lebron is averaging 30/7/7? I'm sure you'll agree he doesnt take any time off being lazy during the season.

You don't average those numbers over a whole season without working hard.
Okay, at the risk of sounding like a total douche and dragging out another VC discussion (which I'm not trying to do), I want to quickly point something out.

Remember how I was talking about you giving VC the "Carter tilt"? You're sort of doing it again. This is exactly what I was talking about in one of our other discussions. I mean, we all make mistakes here, that's not the point. But you're ALWAYS pumping Carter up while at least slightly distorting the other player's stats, if not seriously distorting the other player. The statistical table is always tilted in Carter's favour.

I understand the rounding of numbers, so I don't take issue with that, in principle. But it should be more like 28/6/4 for Carter and 30/7/9 for Lebron. Lebron just destroys Carter in the passing category. You made it seem close, when it's not, in reality.

The real numbers are 27.6/5.5/3.9 and 29.7/7.3/8.6, so Lebron has a 2.3 ppg edge, a 1.8 rebounding edge and a huge 4.7 assist edge. Overall, that's considerable. The difference in the combination of the points and assists amounts to over 10 ppg of extra offense from Lebron. And almost 2 rebounds per game is a big difference at the wing position. Carter did have a great season, though. Personally, I think Carter could have had 2 or 3 more seasons of 28-30 ppg if he'd had the desire other top players exhibit. Carter had the potential to lead the league in socring.

In my opinion, Carter was a different guy in his earlier years. Fuck, I'd love 2000 or 2001 Carter on our team. He went to the rim with authority on a regular basis. He dunked over 7 footers. But his mentality changed...quite quickly and for the worse. I know you think it was about injuries. Maybe that factored into things to some degree during the first year back. But for fuck's sake, didn't he even admit that he was not giving 100%? I'm pretty sure he admitted that.

And you're saying a slam dunk champion who announcers dubbed as "half man and half amazing" is "a LOT" less athletic?

Hmm...I'm not sure what to make of this. On the one hand, I'm impressed that you're willing to make such a claim about someone you clearly idolize, yet I'm also not surprised that the statement is made in order to defend another aspect of him (which many feel is a deficiency). I almost thought we were getting passed the Carter tilt, but you're doing it to apologize for him in another way.

The atheleticism issue is complicated. Lebron undoutedly has superior body strength and court vision, but there's more to athletecism than that. And some might say body strength and court vision are seperate from athleticism, which is what complicates the matter. So I'm not really trying to provoke further discussion of that. But, really, "a LOT" less? Really? That degree of "less"? I don't see it.
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Old 04-09-2010, 06:11 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Vince never liked contact much. When he ran into some he would be a different player. In any case, his attention didn't come through winning.
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