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-   -   Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/feschuk-moves-not-enough-championship-2597.html)

Major 07-10-2008 12:08 PM

Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship
 
Kind of a no-brainer but I do agree with him. I never thought of us being a championship team just because of the trade. But this is classic Feschuk - always negative.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Feschuk's Blog
The trade that sent T.J. Ford, Rasho Nesterovic and first-round draft pick Roy Hibbert to Indianapolis for O'Neal and Nathan Jawai can be viewed as a win-now move, and this corner is usually all for those. But this stroke obviously isn't as bold as the one made last summer by the champion Boston Celtics, who committed to exceeding the luxury tax – spent money to make money, in other words – while surrounding their big acquisition, Kevin Garnett, with the right role players.

The Raptors, committed to not exceeding the tax threshold, have no freedom to fill out a roster that's looking awfully shallow. So this is a go-for-it-now move that doesn't go far enough – if, that is, the championship is the goal.

And perhaps this is the kind of roster a risk-taker like Bryan Colangelo, the Raptors GM, was destined to be left with after his best bets backfired. Many of his moves in his two-plus years in Toronto have been gutsy, but also fraught with long-term downside that has often come home to roost. Similarly, trading a first-round pick for a soon-to-be 30-year-old like O'Neal is a gamble a lot of elite teams don't make unless it puts them on the title's doorstep.

LINK

Adequate Swag 07-10-2008 12:14 PM

Garnett and co weren't available for trade again this summer unfortunately.

And we don't have an Al Jefferson type player to offer.

Sooo...what is his complaint here? That Toronto doesn't have a team that screams championship contender?

There was no possible way for the Raptors to get better this summer than they have with move they made, so I'm not exactly sure what he was looking for. He'd have rather saved the money and spent it on depth?

Major 07-10-2008 12:35 PM

Whatever, I like this deal.

JO makes our team better next year and doesn't screw up our cap up for very long. What else do you guys want? The move is a risk, but isn't every move a risk? Signing Vince, AD, Alvin, and Jerome were all classified as no-brainers. We all know how those deals turned out.

BC doesn't have a crystal ball or anything, he doesn't know for sure if this move will turn out well. But, it does give us a great chance of making it out of the first round, that's for sure.

One important skill is admitting that you made a mistake and doing things to ease the damage of those mistakes. The team wasn't going anywhere. So, he did what he could to make this team work.

Ex2k 07-10-2008 12:45 PM

Does this Dave person realize that JO's contract next year is a HUGE expiring contract? and that is one of the greatest asset's you can have for a team looking to trade to clear up HUGE salary cap space for the big 2010 free agency summer?

Does he?

Major 07-10-2008 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex2k (Post 42537)
Does this Derick person realize that JO's contract next year is a HUGE expiring contract? and that is one of the greatest asset's you can have for a team looking to trade to clear up HUGE salary cap space for the big 2010 free agency summer?

Does he?

If by Derick you mean Dave, then no, he doesn't realize :haha:

But you're right. The free agency class of 2010 is going to be huge like we all saw.

What has cap space ever done for the Raptors? If things don't work out with JO then it will be a tough hole to climb out of and we can count our blessings if Bosh decides to re-sign.

moremilk 07-10-2008 12:52 PM

I thought we're going to battle for that 8th playoff spot ... at least we're being promoted to "not good enough to win a title" :)
Of course we're not yet in a position to win a title, but teams are not constructed over night. What happened to Boston was a miracle facilitated by a "friendly" trade. If we're going to contend next season, it will open up more chances to get cheaper star-level players. And once we prove we can battle for a title, I'm sure MLSE will ok going over the luxury tax a bit.

Ex2k 07-10-2008 12:56 PM

Quote:

If by Derick you mean Dave, then no, he doesn't realize
Derrick Dave... whatever... lol

thanks i fixed it

Claudius 07-10-2008 12:56 PM

Has anybody in the entire NBA said this is a move to be a championship team? Not really. Contenders for the crown of the eastern conference? Possibly.

Dave's really just stating the obvious here and seems to be running out of ideas. Maybe he should look into the fact that at this moment right now we are improving an image that at one point was near the basement of the league. Maybe as others have pointed out, we're in a nice position in two years time (2010) to be a player in the FA pool; something Colangelo has said he wants to be in.

I'm all for reading constructive criticism and viewpoints, but when you're stating obvious points and looking at them as almost negatives, then really you're not thinking beyond. If anything this move to bring J.O. in was one to establish, or continue to, establish a culture of winning. And seeing how this franchise has had losing seasons moreso than winning seasons, I really don't see that as a negative.

Ex2k 07-10-2008 01:00 PM

is it just me or does anyone else wish "DAVE" was that guy O'neal threw the greatest running punch ive seen in my life at in the Detroit Brawl...

J.O WITH THE K.O

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8vjZYnPOw

LX 07-10-2008 01:08 PM

The guy gets dumber by the day. Where is all the long-term downside of past moves exactly? And what is he harping on about with regards to a plan falling apart? What plan doesn't fall apart to some degree? It's the ability to allow for adjustments and then make those adjustments that matter. Oh - but Jermaine called Andrea "Andre" so there can only be failure in the cards.

This guy was great when the Raptors were winning, although it probably killed him to can the dumb negativity. I think he's really missing the mark right now. Fans were turning very sour at the end of the season, but this kind of move is also exactly what they were looking for. So he's got no audience for his crabby riffs. There is not a huge "who pissed in my cornflakes" set out there right now. Not at least until their first loss. I guess if he waits until then he won't be able to pat himself on the back for being so smart.

LX 07-10-2008 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claudius (Post 42543)
Has anybody in the entire NBA said this is a move to be a championship team? Not really. Contenders for the crown of the eastern conference? Possibly.

Actually JO did. But thats a good approach for him to have and for him to bring to the team, because if that takes root properly, then maybe they can do what it takes to really get there sooner rather than later. Which is what I think you're saying here -

Quote:

If anything this move to bring J.O. in was one to establish, or continue to, establish a culture of winning. And seeing how this franchise has had losing seasons moreso than winning seasons, I really don't see that as a negative.
Bingo!

Gurk 07-10-2008 01:35 PM

Dave=stupid
enough said

Adequate Swag 07-10-2008 01:44 PM

In addition, I find it humorous he picks now to talk about the Raps not being a championship team.

I mean, have they ever been closer? A step in the right direction isn't good enough? This team was the laughingstock of the league less than 3 years ago.

Somehow BC taking them from the basement to an above average team in two seasons constitutes "gutsy moves fraught with long-term downside that have often come home to roost"??? How?

If anything, his most criticized move since taking over (the Bargnani pick), which would certainly qualify as gutsy, represents long term upside and short term patience.

MikeToronto 07-10-2008 01:47 PM

Feschuk is NOT stupid. He could be biased sometimes, he almost always has an agenda, but stupid he is not. In fact, him and Grange are two best basketball writers in Toronto, IMO.

What he is saying is essentially true. This is, more or less, win-now move that requires the rest of the roster to be filled on the cheap side.

Adequate Swag 07-10-2008 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeToronto (Post 42560)
What he is saying is essentially true. This is, more or less, win-now move that requires the rest of the roster to be filled on the cheap side.

Yes...the same thing basically every member of this forum was saying the minute it was speculated.

What's the point of writing a column if you aren't being informative in any way? Anyone with any interest in the Raptors knew this already. Shit, anyone with any interest in basketball knew this already.

I agree he's not stupid. He's a fine writer in general, and I read his stuff. This article is pointless though. He could've concluded it with "In other news, the sky is blue, water is wet, and Swag is not even making an effort to pretend to do work today"

It's obvious. :haha:

Kirby 07-10-2008 01:55 PM

Guys, let's bring in Stephon Marbury. 08-09!:aargh:

MangoKidHoops 07-10-2008 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlashDWade3 (Post 42565)
Guys, let's bring in Stephon Marbury. 08-09!:aargh:

?

Claudius 07-10-2008 02:07 PM

Yeah, what?

Gurk 07-10-2008 02:11 PM

what why would you even say that name ?

Snooch 07-10-2008 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeToronto (Post 42560)
Feschuk is NOT stupid. He could be biased sometimes, he almost always has an agenda, but stupid he is not. In fact, him and Grange are two best basketball writers in Toronto, IMO.

What he is saying is essentially true. This is, more or less, win-now move that requires the rest of the roster to be filled on the cheap side.

This is not a win now move nor should anyone cofuse it for one. This is a move that show CB4 that the Raps are making moves to help him and surround him with good players. This is a move that brings in a player with some defensive pride to anchor a weak defensive team. This is a move that give the Raps $23 million in expiring contracts in 2010 when the following are free agents

Joe Johnson
Ray Allen
Ben Wallace
LeBron James (player option, likely)
Dirk Nowitzki (player option, unlikely)
Josh Howard (player option, likely)
Marcus Camby
Rip Hamilton
Stephen Jackson
Tracy McGrady
Shaquille O'Neal
Dwyane Wade (player option for 10/11, unlikely)
Michael Redd (player option for 10/11, likely)
Tyson Chandler (player option for 10/11 - 50/50)
Eddy Curry (player option for 10/11 - 50/50)
Amare Stoudemire (player option for 10/11, unlikely)
Brad Miller
Manu Ginobili
Chris Bosh (player option for 10/11, unlikely)

A team of Jose, Joe Johnson, Kapono, Bosh, Bargs/Jawai looks like a contender to me and it is possible come 2010 with lots of cash


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