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-   -   fatigue maybe? (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/fatigue-maybe-1558.html)

moremilk 04-06-2008 01:42 AM

fatigue maybe?
 
Since there's no way we're this bad of a team, is it possible that our team is really tired right now? Our best players right now are Rasho, who barely played in the first months, and TJ, who missed lots of games as well. Parker and Bosh are absolutely horrible, and they are usually playing the heavy minutes. Jose is not playing great either, and he also was overplayed prior to March. The subs are playing pretty much like they done all year, one good game, one bad - I don't see anything particularly different about them.

I hope they are tired, because the alternative is that they are tired of Mitchell, and I can't find any arguments for this (other than the bad play).

Jay 04-06-2008 02:52 AM

I hate the "tired" excuse. Every other team in the NBA is playing games too. If you're tired, you know what you should be doing in the off-season: working on your conditioning.

The MVP of West Hollywood 04-06-2008 03:41 AM

It's a possibility. Bosh for sure, we really shouldn't have been giving him 45 minute games the first week he was back, hell fucking no. Calderon... maybe. I think his problem is more being iced from the subbing in and out.

I think it's more likely we're just playing without chemistry or heart right now.

Belsius 04-06-2008 08:25 AM

You could tell we werent tired just without chemistry in the fourth quarter of yesterdays game.

raptor123 04-06-2008 10:00 AM

I say its time the raptors show their hand. Start Jose if hes your guy. Forget what TJ thinks. Play Jose like a real starting point guard forget about keeping TJ happy with minutes. We all were wondering how this team would look like with TJ back in the line up well here it his guys we have now have hit rock bottom. Its not how TJ is playing, its about team chemistry. We were a better team with Jose at the point. Please its not a hate thing its just an observation.If it means giving TJ dixon type of minutes then let it be it. At least we beat the celtics with Jose running the show.And if its not going to be Jose next year you give Jose the dixon minutes. Hopefully its not the case but something must change and change fast.

Belsius 04-06-2008 10:07 AM

the problem in this team is not in the PG position.

raptor123 04-06-2008 10:21 AM

Bel I am with you, both point guards have played very well. They are both playing well in the same game which is nice. However the chemistry or lack of is missing. We are going through too many mood swings in games. If a hitter is swinging a hot bat do you you take him out of the line up ? Mitch can't be worried about trying to keep all his players happy at this time. We are running out of time, guys like Defino have a role but hell don't let his play take you out of games for example. Mitch has to do a better job reconizing whats happening on the floor.That even includes our guy Bosh. The guy is human and he does stink it up at times. If Mitch can read and react alittle better we might be able to get out of this funk.

Demetrio 04-06-2008 10:24 AM

Well, I don't know they are the ones sailing the boat, and we are going nowhere, I keep saying New orleans game, Tj showcase was disgusting, in both ends, if I was Smitch the next game he should let him on the bench to start, so he learn what intensity is.
By the way intensity in the game is as a group, the coaching staff should be watching those games against +.500 teams where we won and why, if you paid attention tell me who was there, and watch the chemistry going.:sigh::sigh:

raptor123 04-06-2008 11:11 AM

Well here are some of the games where we played well and won. Take a look at the scores and minutes played, very interesting.

win over Dallas http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore...gid=2007121228

win over San Antonio http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore...gid=2007122824

win over New Orleans
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore...gid=2007123103

win over Boston
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore...gid=2008012302

win over Orlando
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore...gid=2008022028

win over Detroit
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore...gid=2008032628

I think we shake up our line up again. Hell we altered our line up because we went into a rut. We have dug ourselves a bigger hole now.Too late this season to change pieces to the puzzle. What you see is what you get. Instead of players or player steping up to the plate to make a change its time that management lays down the law and makes the change. Who really cares about the crying if you know what I mean. Shake it up Mitch use the remaining games to challenge your players let them decide who will be playing in the playoffs.Don't worry about the egos its time you lay down the law.

Dr. J. Naismith 04-06-2008 11:42 AM

I'm frustrated too, but I could really care less quite frankly. Call me a fairweather fan, but who are we kidding if we thought we'd make any noise come playoff time? We don't have a strong or experienced enough team to go deep in the playoffs anyways. So anything more than a win in the playoffs and we've been spoiled. :)

As for shaking up the lineup, there's no point now. Ford played fantastic since being put back in, but its players like Bosh and Parker that have disappointed greatly over these last couple weeks. Bosh, well I'm going to chalk it up to him having problems with this knee again. I hope he's in so much pain right now that he passes on the Olympics this summer so he can be 100% healthy this fall. If he doesn't use this summer to rest, expect more of the same if not worse from Chris next season because his knee pain is bound to flair up again. :crying:

Parker, I have no clue what's going on with him. He's just looked out of sync for the last week or so. The effort seems to be there, but for a guy who's usually one of your team's defensive staples its upsetting seeing guys blow by him like they have recently. But truth be told, we're asking alot from Parker. We're asking alot and putting pressure on a guy who really is a bench player and not a starter. To be a successful SG in this league you have to be able to create on offense and often. That's something that Parker doesn't do well and likely never will be. :(

Anyhow, only positive besides Rasho that I've seen lately is the play of Ford. BC as disappointed as he probably is right now, has to be a little relieved because Ford's stock is quickly rising at an alarming rate. And they'll be a number of teams looking for a starting PG this summer. So hooray for T.J. :)

raptor123 04-06-2008 11:54 AM

Doc I hope your right with TJ's stock going up. When you see TJ playing as well as he has only to see him fall apart and make some crusial mistakes at the end.TJ is posting up some good numbers but somehow we are just playing worst as a team. Articles and remarks like this won't help his stock.

There were other culprits. T.J. Ford, the Toronto point guard playing carelessly, made some momentum-squashing mental errors when the Raptors carved out a brief third-quarter lead. Anthony Parker, Jamario Moon and Carlos Delfino, the swingmen primarily charged with guarding Carter and Richard Jefferson, saw the Nets duo outscore the Toronto trio 60-26.

Dr. J. Naismith 04-06-2008 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raptor123 (Post 23394)
There were other culprits. T.J. Ford, the Toronto point guard playing carelessly, made some momentum-squashing mental errors when the Raptors carved out a brief third-quarter lead. Anthony Parker, Jamario Moon and Carlos Delfino, the swingmen primarily charged with guarding Carter and Richard Jefferson, saw the Nets duo outscore the Toronto trio 60-26.

You mind providing us with the link for the dolt that wrote that? :confused2:

Writers are just as one-sided as the Raptors fans are regarding Ford. I'd hate to see the results from these last couple games without Ford playing. They would be been one-sided, and not in our favour either unfortunately. :(

fho 04-06-2008 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay (Post 23372)
I hate the "tired" excuse. Every other team in the NBA is playing games too. If you're tired, you know what you should be doing in the off-season: working on your conditioning.

I'm with you on this one, Jay. We need old-school coaches like Riley, Byron Scott or Doc Rivers to get the team into hardened shape.


Despite making the playoffs we are actually far from being considered good. If we were on the western conference we'd be nowhere in sight of the playoffs.

But it's always good to say that we made it, and hope for improvement for the next season. :-)

praja 04-06-2008 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moremilk (Post 23371)
I hope they are tired, because the alternative is that they are tired of Mitchell, and I can't find any arguments for this (other than the bad play).

I just heard a Bargnani and Delfino post game interview in italian.
Delfino was asked if they played so bad because they're tired and he answered that yes, they are, but then he said that maybe it's because they don't know what to do when they're defending or attacking :eek:, and he doesn't know if he will be back next season.
He sounded quite disappointed.
Bargnani sounded pissed off, said they played really bad, he knows he won't be a starter anymore and said it's difficult to play well when you have just a few minutes because you need more and constant playtime to produce and he said he's going to work very hard during the off season.
He was asked if one of the reason why the team is struggling it's because Ford is a starter again and plays more than Calderón and he just answered that it depends on the coach, but it was clear that he's not happy about that.
Anyway, it seems they don't like Mitchell very much. :(

Belsius 04-06-2008 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by praja (Post 23417)
I just heard a Bargnani and Delfino post game interview in italian.
Delfino was asked if they played so bad because they're tired and he answered that yes, they are, but then he said that maybe it's because they don't know what to do when they're defending or attacking :eek:, and he doesn't know if he will be back next season.
He sounded quite disappointed.
Bargnani sounded pissed off, said they played really bad, he knows he won't be a starter anymore and said it's difficult to play well when you have just a few minutes because you need more and constant playtime to produce and he said he's going to work very hard during the off season.
He was asked if one of the reason why the team is struggling it's because Ford is a starter again and plays more than Calderón and he just answered that it depends on the coach, but it was clear that he's not happy about that.
Anyway, it seems they don't like Mitchell very much. :(

I think you should not judge their opinions in what a player says or looks like after a terrible lose like this one. Sam has talked really well about Carlos all season long and backed Bargs. They arent happy but that doesnt mean they dont like Sam.:cheers2:

Claudius 04-06-2008 02:32 PM

If any player on our team is tired, they should be kicked out of the league OR the coaching staff should be fired for not having our team properly conditioned.

fho 04-06-2008 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by praja (Post 23417)
I just heard a Bargnani and Delfino post game interview in italian.
Delfino was asked if they played so bad because they're tired and he answered that yes, they are, but then he said that maybe it's because they don't know what to do when they're defending or attacking :eek:, and he doesn't know if he will be back next season.
He sounded quite disappointed.
Bargnani sounded pissed off, said they played really bad, he knows he won't be a starter anymore and said it's difficult to play well when you have just a few minutes because you need more and constant playtime to produce and he said he's going to work very hard during the off season.
He was asked if one of the reason why the team is struggling it's because Ford is a starter again and plays more than Calderón and he just answered that it depends on the coach, but it was clear that he's not happy about that.
Anyway, it seems they don't like Mitchell very much. :(

I guess Delfino means that there is no clear strategy that the coaching staff has developed for the team in preparation for games, not even a baseline strategy. It\'s what some of us has being saying... we don\'t have an identity in offense, nor defense.

That\'s great of Bargnani to say he\'s going to work hard in the offseason. He\'s taken responsibility for himself and will hopefully earn himself a chance for more minutes. Hopefully, everone else does the same.

Ball Don\'t Lie 04-06-2008 02:34 PM

Bargs definately doesnt like Sam and Sam definately doesnt like him. Theres no question about that.

And the fatigue excuse is fucking bs. The other good teams around the league are getting ready and winning games in the stretch run that they should win and we\'re donking around playing like Miami. Fuck that.

And fuck Bosh. Fucking soft tired pansy.

Dr. J. Naismith 04-06-2008 02:53 PM

Oh uh .... the internal issues are still running ramped in the Raptors lockerroom. :(

Makes me more and more excited about this summer for the all the changes. :D

Krazy Ivan 04-06-2008 03:18 PM

Tired... shmired... I am tired of watching them play soft and with no defensive effort like they do... :frustrated:


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