Everyone thinks the starting lineup will struggle on D, but...

Go Back   Raptors Forum | Toronto Raptors Forums & Message Boards > NBA Discussion > Toronto Raptors

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-04-2009, 11:13 AM   #1 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,104
Representing:
Everyone thinks the starting lineup will struggle on D, but...

If you look at the bench, does nobody think that the toughness and intensity added on the bench this summer will push the starters come practice/training camp. So much so that the starters will improve simply by having to go against the other players in practices?

Example:

-Jose facing Jack in practice> certainly should help him raise defensive awarness

-Derozan, Belinelli facing guys like Jack/Wright should raise their defensive ability

-Turkoglu facing Wright/Johnson should help as well

-Bosh should certainly be pushed by Evans/Johnson

-Bargs should and i think will, benefit by playing with/against Rasho/Johnson/Evans

The practices this season should be alot more intense with the above mentioned additions and it all should be habit forming for the better. I've always gotten the impressions in the past that Raptor practices were always a little laid back. A deeper bench, should equal better competition in practices which should eventually translate to games, no?

Last edited by jeffb; 09-04-2009 at 11:15 AM.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 11:16 AM   #2 (permalink)
enjoying the RealGM courtesy of RF

Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 837
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
If you look at the bench, does nobody think that the toughness and intensity added on the bench this summer will push the starters come practice/training camp. So much so that the starters will improve simply by having to go against the other players in practices?

Example:

-Jose facing Jack in practice> certainly should help him raise defensive awarness

-Derozan, Belinelli facing guys like Jack/Wright should raise their defensive ability

-Turkoglu facing Wright/Johnson should help as well

-Bosh should certainly be pushed by Evans/Johnson

-Bargs should and i think will, benefit by playing with/against Rasho/Johnson/Evans

The practices this season should be alot more intense with the above mentioned additions and it all should be habit forming for the better. I've always gotten the impressions in the past that Raptor practices were always a little laid back. A deeper bench, should equal better practices which should eventually translate to games, no?

Never thought of it that way but yeah it would help. "We're not talking about the game, we talking about practice"
rapsdabest is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 11:21 AM   #3 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,104
Representing:
Let's face it, last season our starters practiced with Moon, Ukic,AP (good player),soloman, Kapono, POB, Adams, Jawai, Banks,Graham.

Those names don't exactly scream intensity or competion do they?

Now compare that to Wright, Jack, Evans, Johnson, Rasho, Derozan, Beli
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 11:22 AM   #4 (permalink)
enjoying the RealGM courtesy of RF

Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 837
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Let's face it, last season our starters practiced with Moon, Ukic,AP (good player),soloman, Kapono, POB, Adams, Jawai, Banks,Graham.

Those names don't eaxtly scream intensity or competion do they?

Now compare that to Wright, Jack, Evans, Johnson, Rasho, Derozan
The only chal;lengeas at practice were Parker and from what I heard graham tried hard at practice.
rapsdabest is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 11:26 AM   #5 (permalink)
a Triano's fan

The friendly neighbor
 
insight_tor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,065
Representing:
Default

I think the defense should be a team defense, so I guess it all depends on how the coaching staff will put in place the defensive plan and how players will execute the assignments. The increase of defensive awareness you are talking will add only marginal benefit.
insight_tor is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 12:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
lol

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,221
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by insight_tor View Post
I think the defense should be a team defense, so I guess it all depends on how the coaching staff will put in place the defensive plan and how players will execute the assignments. The increase of defensive awareness you are talking will add only marginal benefit.
Every single defense is team defense. There's no such a thing as no team defense.

It all comes down to intensity, hunger, and most importantly accountability.

P.S. there's a good chance the bench merks the starting lineup in practise
gabe91 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 12:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
everybody get off ur arses and vote CB4 to the All Star Game!

Str8 Shooter
 
.40 Cal Flakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Maple...by way of Rexdale
Posts: 694
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
If you look at the bench, does nobody think that the toughness and intensity added on the bench this summer will push the starters come practice/training camp. So much so that the starters will improve simply by having to go against the other players in practices?

The practices this season should be alot more intense with the above mentioned additions and it all should be habit forming for the better. I've always gotten the impressions in the past that Raptor practices were always a little laid back. A deeper bench, should equal better competition in practices which should eventually translate to games, no?
Stating the obvious. This is exactly what Triano stated in an interview a couple weeks ago.
.40 Cal Flakes is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 01:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 10,417
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
If you look at the bench, does nobody think that the toughness and intensity added on the bench this summer will push the starters come practice/training camp. So much so that the starters will improve simply by having to go against the other players in practices?

Example:

-Jose facing Jack in practice> certainly should help him raise defensive awarness

-Derozan, Belinelli facing guys like Jack/Wright should raise their defensive ability

-Turkoglu facing Wright/Johnson should help as well

-Bosh should certainly be pushed by Evans/Johnson

-Bargs should and i think will, benefit by playing with/against Rasho/Johnson/Evans

The practices this season should be alot more intense with the above mentioned additions and it all should be habit forming for the better. I've always gotten the impressions in the past that Raptor practices were always a little laid back. A deeper bench, should equal better competition in practices which should eventually translate to games, no?
excellent point, and I would like to add that also there will be much more pressure from behind for the starters (not that kind of pressure), which should make them work a little bit harder than they would otherwise.

Plus Bosh is in a contract year and is supposed to be much stronger, which would be a huge advantage. Coupled with the fact that he will have more energy for defense, things could actually be much brighter than some try to make them.

of course, that's all supposition, we won't know until we see it ...
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 01:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
back

Administrator

 
DuCa00795's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Maratimes
Posts: 3,279
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
If you look at the bench, does nobody think that the toughness and intensity added on the bench this summer will push the starters come practice/training camp. So much so that the starters will improve simply by having to go against the other players in practices?

Example:

-Jose facing Jack in practice> certainly should help him raise defensive awarness

-Derozan, Belinelli facing guys like Jack/Wright should raise their defensive ability

-Turkoglu facing Wright/Johnson should help as well

-Bosh should certainly be pushed by Evans/Johnson

-Bargs should and i think will, benefit by playing with/against Rasho/Johnson/Evans

The practices this season should be alot more intense with the above mentioned additions and it all should be habit forming for the better. I've always gotten the impressions in the past that Raptor practices were always a little laid back. A deeper bench, should equal better competition in practices which should eventually translate to games, no?
Getting a little over-zealous? Or just bored haha. I don't think it'll really make them better ,defenders. Like Jose isn't going to come in next season and play much defense. Kind of like how Turk won't come in and rebound. Truth is, our 30-36 minutes guys are mostly limited on defence. I mean, guys like Wright became good defenders because they WANTED to. All these players have the ability, but most of them have to focus on different aspects of the game which make us a team. Hopefully Jay puts in a good defensive system and the team plays defense together. Not just as individuals.
DuCa00795 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 01:48 PM   #10 (permalink)
whatever

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 10,417
Representing:
Default

so basically you contradict yourself by saying that they don't have the ability to play defense, but wright is a good defender because he wants to.

if it's just a matter of will, than pressure from the bench should make the starters be more willing to defender, so they can play more minutes.
moremilk is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 02:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
LX
effin' ineffable

In the Paint
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 30,071
Representing:
Default

Bosh is a good defender and committed to becoming better, Andrea has the potential and the stated desire to be a good defender, Turkoglu isn't that bad, Jose will be much better if not allowed to wear down, and Wright could easily be a starter. I don't see where the struggle is. The biggest thing with defense in the NBA is getting everyone buying into the team defense, and definitely some of those guys off the bench will help with that. Aside from that it's going to come down to healthy legs from Bosh and Jose more than anything else.
LX is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 02:47 PM   #12 (permalink)
a Triano's fan

The friendly neighbor
 
insight_tor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,065
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe91 View Post
Every single defense is team defense. There's no such a thing as no team defense.

It all comes down to intensity, hunger, and most importantly accountability.

P.S. there's a good chance the bench merks the starting lineup in practise
I was talking about individual defense (one-to-one) which pretty much translates on how many rebounds/steals/blocks a individual player can accumulate. And then the team defense when everything goes according to a defense plan and the fact that a certain player doesn't necessary get too much rebounds/steals/blocks but he successfully completed his defensive assignments: cutting the passing line to a good shooter/scorer, boxing out, etc which are not captured by statistics.

Not always a group of very good 5 defenders equals a very good team defensively.
insight_tor is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 02:55 PM   #13 (permalink)
is pounding the rock!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,816
Representing:
Default

I am watching alot of games from last year with RAPTOR TV, it looks really bad. Marion is the only player fighting for rebounds. There is no accountability for defense with this team, it just looks like they want to play offense. With players on the bench who can play D (Jack, Rasho, Amir Johnson), lets hope Jay has a fast hook on the starters who don't want to play defense.
RAPMAN is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 03:05 PM   #14 (permalink)
Captain of the Jamario Moon fan club.

Born Unready
 
Dark Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Electric Avenue
Posts: 15,552
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAPMAN View Post
I am watching alot of games from last year with RAPTOR TV, it looks really bad. Marion is the only player fighting for rebounds. There is no accountability for defense with this team, it just looks like they want to play offense. With players on the bench who can play D (Jack, Rasho, Amir Johnson), lets hope Jay has a fast hook on the starters who don't want to play defense.
Welll, theres only 6 returning players from that team ( Jose, Bargs, Bosh, POB, Banks, and Douby). Last year was horrible. I've been trying to forget last season.
Dark Knight is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 03:08 PM   #15 (permalink)
is the baby faced assassin

Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: YO MAMMA
Posts: 81,104
Representing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
Welll, theres only 6 returning players from that team ( Jose, Bargs, Bosh, POB, Banks, and Douby). Last year was horrible. I've been trying to forget last season.
The great thing is, 2 of those players won't see the floor and a third player (POB) will barely see PT at all.
jeffb is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 05:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
Sick, Wicked, and Nasty!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,222
Representing:
Default

not sure if this idea is really that legit
considering jose had to get head-to-head versus TJ for 2 years, he didn't improve his defense at all
and generally your skills are developed during the offseason and implemented during the season
Admiral is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 06:29 PM   #17 (permalink)
in dire need of a drink ...hic

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 706
Representing:
Default

I don't think it will help Starters Defense at all. It may help the starters offensively to face a defensive squad but not defensively.

Similarily it may help the defenders to play against the offensive starters but not gonna help them offensively.
Jakkal is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 08:30 PM   #18 (permalink)
is back baby

Large and in charge
 
Snooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All up in there
Posts: 8,248
Representing:
Default

I can see, by that logic at least, that the offense of the starting lineup will be alot better playing against some tough defenders.

Bosh should get stronger leaning against Evans every day.
Turk should get a little hungrier with Wright hounding him all the time
Belli and Derozan should help the other with their weeknesses
Jose should be beter at handling a defensive pg.
Snooch is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 08:47 PM   #19 (permalink)
A Celtic-Red Sox hater!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 509
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
If you look at the bench, does nobody think that the toughness and intensity added on the bench this summer will push the starters come practice/training camp. So much so that the starters will improve simply by having to go against the other players in practices?

Example:

-Jose facing Jack in practice> certainly should help him raise defensive awarness

-Derozan, Belinelli facing guys like Jack/Wright should raise their defensive ability

-Turkoglu facing Wright/Johnson should help as well

-Bosh should certainly be pushed by Evans/Johnson

-Bargs should and i think will, benefit by playing with/against Rasho/Johnson/Evans

The practices this season should be alot more intense with the above mentioned additions and it all should be habit forming for the better. I've always gotten the impressions in the past that Raptor practices were always a little laid back. A deeper bench, should equal better competition in practices which should eventually translate to games, no?

Absolutely, the practices will be battles this year with all the extra bodies around and it will push players to both be tougher, better defensively and on top of their games if they want the minutes.
tvett6 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 08:57 PM   #20 (permalink)
A Celtic-Red Sox hater!

Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 509
Representing:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb View Post
Let's face it, last season our starters practiced with Moon, Ukic,AP (good player),soloman, Kapono, POB, Adams, Jawai, Banks,Graham.

Those names don't exactly scream intensity or competion do they?

Now compare that to Wright, Jack, Evans, Johnson, Rasho, Derozan, Beli
Last year the team coasted through practices for fear of tiring their overworked starters and a thin bench meant high paced situational scrimmages were non existant. As the season wore on, the players level of conditioning fell off a cliff. If you don't practice game type situations at full speed you will not be able to mimic them and execute at full speed in games. Our depth may prove to be our biggest asset this season as it will keep our practices highly competitive and energetic.
tvett6 is offline   Boss Key Wife Key Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Smith: Calderon should be back in the starting lineup very soon Acie Toronto Raptors 32 01-05-2010 06:43 PM
Toronto Raptors will struggle starting Calderon at point guard and Bargnani at post bodmonshotta Toronto Raptors 18 12-04-2009 03:56 PM
Toronto Raptors will struggle starting Calderon at point guard and Bargnani at post Acie Toronto Raptors 7 11-28-2009 11:15 AM
Will Bargnani Replace JO in Starting Lineup? Krazy Ivan Toronto Raptors 20 11-10-2008 09:43 AM
Rasho & Ford Back In Starting Lineup ... Jose's Out Dr. J. Naismith Toronto Raptors 80 03-27-2008 08:24 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright RaptorsForum.com 2005-2011

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24