ESPN: Rudy Gay haunts Grizzlies
Old 06-01-2013, 10:07 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default ESPN: Rudy Gay haunts Grizzlies

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So what if his shooting percentage wasn't the greatest, so what if he could at times be a liability on defense, so what if it would have been a struggle for Lionel Hollins to have him co-exist on the blocks with Randolph and Marc Gasol offensively. Gay was the one player who had the ability to get the Grizzlies out of scoring slumps that seem to happen to every team, every season in the playoffs when facing great defensive teams becomes unavoidable.

How Chris Wallace (GM) didn't think about that, I don't know. How John Hollinger (VP) didn't think about that, I don't know. How Rob Pera and Steve Kaplan (chairman and vice chairman) allowed this to happen, I have no idea.

I'm not saying that Gay is worth the almost $18 million he was due next season or the more than $19 million he was on the books for in 2014-15, nor am I saying that the Grizzlies would have beaten the Spurs with him, but I am saying the organization owed it to the basketball-side of their business dealings to at least for this season finish it out "as is" and see what their team would have done with the original parts they'd put together to make a potential June run.

I am saying that the Grizzlies wouldn't have been taken out like they were or gone out like they did.

Because instead of taking steps forward, the Spurs series proved that the Memphis Grizzlies actually took a step or two back. Back to the original grind. The conference finals is not the time nor the place for miserly roster behavior from earlier this season to rear its "god has a really twisted sense of humor" head.
Rudy Gay trade haunts Grizzlies - ESPN
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:57 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I thought Memphis improved after the trade. They were 27-11 after Gay left and their defence and offensive efficiency went up.

I don't remember them going to the WCF with Gay on the team.
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:09 AM   #3 (permalink)
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What a nonsensical article. If Gay was on the team, then Randolph and Gasol wouldnt have destroyed LAC/OKC, and they likely wouldnt have made it out of the first round. He would have been a better fit vs SAS yes, but you need to get to that point first.
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:48 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Hindsight is 20/20
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:49 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ball Don't Lie View Post
What a nonsensical article. If Gay was on the team, then Randolph and Gasol wouldnt have destroyed LAC/OKC, and they likely wouldnt have made it out of the first round. He would have been a better fit vs SAS yes, but you need to get to that point first.
How exactly would gay have prevented gasol and Randolph from dominating?
Memphis got lucky that griffin went down because the clips had a thin frontcourt, not to mention Westbrook. Prince averaged 7 and 4 in the playoffs, they would have been better with Landry fields ...
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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How exactly would gay have prevented gasol and Randolph from dominating?
Memphis got lucky that griffin went down because the clips had a thin frontcourt, not to mention Westbrook. Prince averaged 7 and 4 in the playoffs, they would have been better with Landry fields ...
Gay takes a lot of touches away from both Gasol and Randolph. Without him, they went exclusively to either post players in the post on most possessions, or used them in pick and roll situations with Conley. Without Gay, despite Princes suckage, he still ran their post offence and played within the offence, making the necessary pass to get the ball into the post and getting the hell out of the way. Half the time when Gay was supposed to make a post entry feed, he ended up calling the big over for a pick and roll, or just ISOing.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:13 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Regardless of who's right on the Gay/no Gay topic, this looks like an empty article that doesn't add much to the debate. I'd love to see a take from someone with a strong basketball playbook or numbers insight. This is just a typical woulda shoulda maybe coulda hack job.

Also, what's the point in attacking Wallace/Hollinger. It doesn't seem that they are calling the shots, based on previous higher quality pieces about Memphis organization. It's more about Levien/Stu Lash, with Hollinger likely being the 3rd guy. Wallace seems like a GM in name only.
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:20 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ball Don't Lie View Post
What a nonsensical article. If Gay was on the team, then Randolph and Gasol wouldnt have destroyed LAC/OKC, and they likely wouldnt have made it out of the first round. He would have been a better fit vs SAS yes, but you need to get to that point first.
Wouldn't have destroyed LAC? They had 0 defense being played inside, they woulda got destroyed just about any team at that point. and OKC was 5-1... you think it would been 0-4 if gay was there? If gay was there Durant would have had to guard Rudy and still play his crazy, 48 mins or w/e Brooks was making him do.

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I thought Memphis improved after the trade. They were 27-11 after Gay left and their defence and offensive efficiency went up.

I don't remember them going to the WCF with Gay on the team.
Injuries didn't play a role in that?
and cheap shot there at the end...
but..... Game 7 Clips vs Griz. Lost by 10 points. Rudy Gay's first playoff series and game 7: 19 points 9 recounds (7-15 fga) 46 fg% (54% ts%)
Zach, Conley, Allen, Mayo combined for 27 points (9fgm - 44fga) 20% fg
Yup, Rudy's fault. If they had a year under the belt together, and a year for Mike to get better, which he did. edit: and no Mayo going 1-11. This team woulda been lethal in the post-season.

Last edited by Ataf; 06-01-2013 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:28 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Let me simplify it for you:

Rudy in MEM= #1 option: Rudy, #2 option: Randolph, #3 option: Gasol
MEM without Rudy: #1 option: Gasol, #1A option: Randolph

With Rudy on the team against LAC, they would go to him on more possesions than Randolph and Gasol, thus negating their inside presence on a consistent basis. There were points during last years series where Gasol wouldnt even touch the ball for 5 possessions at a time.

No Rudy=higher usage rate for Gasol/Randolph, and thus higher efficiency, and more offensive rebounds.

With Rudy= usage for Randolph/Gasol is way down, and thus much worse efficiency. Their high post offence with Gasol is 10x better than their previous ISO offence with Rudy and Randolph.
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
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so what you're truly saying is that it's a coaching issue.
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:43 PM   #11 (permalink)
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so what you're truly saying is that it's a coaching issue.
Either that or Rudy is unwilling to change his current playing style, and give up some touches to fit a teams system. Or more likely, a combination of the two.

As I've said before, Rudy would be a beast if he'd just stick to spot up shots, off down screen midrange shots, and post ups. But a large percentage of his offence comes from trying to create 20-26 feet away from the basket off of isolations and pick and rolls, something he's just not good at.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
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It's more Rudy 1A, 1B Randolph, 1C(or D) Marc Gasol, 1D (Or C) Conley.
This season: FGA for them 4 when they were teammates
Rudy: 16.4, 3.7 fta
Zach: 13.6, 3.5 fta
Marc: 10.5, 3.9 fta
Conley: 10.7, 3.0 fta 42.3 % FG (Yes, he was struggling in the begging of the season too.)
now, after Rudy Trade.
Zach: 13.3 - 4.5 fta (More aggressive) (FG% goes down by 5% tho, don't know why..)
Marc: 11.3 - 4 fta
Conley:12.9, 4.1 fta (45% fg)

But what I see is in total 0.9 and 1.1 more FGA and FTA (and I think 1 more assist) in total by Zach and Marc as the season went along. The system didn't change, ask the coach. He said it himself. Their total fg% barley got better? if not, dropped a bit in total.

Conley on the other hand took a leap, the latter success through out the regular season was primarily cause he got better.(I believe he was injured too in the begging? Or near the trade) As he got better all other players around him got better, since he is the point guard. And the Grizzlies didn't have to deal with Rudy recovering from injury.
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