ESPN: Raptors, one of the best lineups in the league
Old 01-05-2010, 02:16 PM   #1 (permalink)
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ESPN: Raptors, one of the best lineups in the league



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10. You have told me that many coaches do things you simply cannot understand, for instance by ignoring some really good lineups. What are some of the best lineups from this season, and are some of them not being played enough?
As I described above, the Lakers have the best lineups. After that, some of the best in the League are:

Hawks: Mike Bibby, Jamal Crawford, Al Horford, Josh Smith and Joe Johnson Rating: +37
Cavaliers: Daniel Gibson, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, LeBron James, Anderson Varejao and Delonte West or Anthony Parker Rating: +53
Mavericks: Erick Dampier, Jason Kidd, Jason Terry, Dirk Nowitzki and Shawn Marion Rating +31
Warriors: Stephen Curry, Monta Ellis, Anthony Morrow, Anthony Randolph, Vladimir Radmanovic Rating +40
Bucks: Charlie Bell, Andrew Bogut, Ersan Ilyasova and Brandon Jennings Rating +29
Knicks: Chris Duhon, Danilo Gallinari, Larry Hughes, Jared Jeffries and David Lee Rating +51
Thunder: Nick Collison, Kevin Durant, Nenad Krstic, Thabo Sefelosha and Russell Westbrook Rating +32
Magic: Ryan Anderson, Matt Barnes, Dwight Howard, Jameer Nelson and J.J. Redick Rating +56
Magic: Matt Barnes, Vince Carter, Rashard Lewis, Dwight Howard and Jason Williams Rating +36
Raptors: Andrea Bargnani, Marco Bellinelli, Chris Bosh, Jose Calderon and Hedo Turkoglu Rating +35
Jazz: Carlos Boozer, Ronnie Brewer, Kyrylo Fesenko, Deron Williams, Wesley Matthews Rating +26
Jazz: Ronnie Brewer, Andrei Kirilenko, Paul Millsap, Mehmet Okur, Deron Williams Rating +26
Ten weeks in: Ten questions for Wayne Winston - TrueHoop Blog - ESPN
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Old 01-05-2010, 02:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It's not surprising. Just imagine if Jose didn't go down with his injury, that line up would have feasted during that stretch against the weaker inury riddled teams. But instead our back up Jack held his own and didn't fuck up. Where is Jacks name anyway ?? lol

The more stories that come out don't be surprised that Jack could be the one on the block. Both Jack and Banks got to audition their skills while Jose was out so maybe Jack is on his way out. As I stated 1000 times numbers don't lie. The only thing that scares me though is that Jose will be the guy the other teams would want !
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Old 01-05-2010, 02:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Goes to show you how poorly this stat reflects reality. How many games have those guys played together and how many wins did we get during that stretch?
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Old 01-05-2010, 02:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Where is Jacks name anyway ?? lol
They put up the best lineup combinations +/-
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Old 01-05-2010, 02:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
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They put up the best lineup combinations +/-
Oh, thats why Jacks name was no where to be found .

thanks Jeff
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Old 01-05-2010, 03:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Warriors +40
Raptors +35

Cool
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Old 01-05-2010, 03:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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these stats don't account for 3rd and 4th Quarter issues that the Raps have had... when it comes down to getting stops, the Raps rarely can with Jose out there... maybe he has been injured the whole time, but that is also a major problem... Either way, I trust BC never panics and believes Jose has good value around the league... I bet other GM's do too...
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Old 01-05-2010, 03:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Knicks: Chris Duhon, Danilo Gallinari, Larry Hughes, Jared Jeffries and David Lee Rating +51

best lineup of the league

stats of my ass..
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Old 01-05-2010, 03:07 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by acopur View Post
Knicks: Chris Duhon, Danilo Gallinari, Larry Hughes, Jared Jeffries and David Lee Rating +51

best lineup of the league

stats of my ass..

Lumping plus/minus into stats is like lumping simple addition into advanced mathematics
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Old 01-05-2010, 03:12 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Lumping plus/minus into stats is like lumping simple addition into advanced mathematics
good point..
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Old 01-05-2010, 03:37 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Goes to show you how poorly this stat reflects reality. How many games have those guys played together and how many wins did we get during that stretch?
Yeah these stats are complete bs; if you go by these stats the knicks are a better team then the Magic.
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Old 01-05-2010, 09:46 PM   #12 (permalink)
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It's not surprising. Just imagine if Jose didn't go down with his injury, that line up would have feasted during that stretch against the weaker inury riddled teams. But instead our back up Jack held his own and didn't fuck up. Where is Jacks name anyway ?? lol

The more stories that come out don't be surprised that Jack could be the one on the block. Both Jack and Banks got to audition their skills while Jose was out so maybe Jack is on his way out. As I stated 1000 times numbers don't lie. The only thing that scares me though is that Jose will be the guy the other teams would want !
LOL Haven't you heard anyone? The Raptors are a better defensive team with Jack starting & thats really the end of the story...(Defence wins championships)
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Old 01-05-2010, 09:55 PM   #13 (permalink)
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It's not surprising. Just imagine if Jose didn't go down with his injury, that line up would have feasted during that stretch against the weaker inury riddled teams. But instead our back up Jack held his own and didn't fuck up. Where is Jacks name anyway ?? lol

The more stories that come out don't be surprised that Jack could be the one on the block. Both Jack and Banks got to audition their skills while Jose was out so maybe Jack is on his way out. As I stated 1000 times numbers don't lie. The only thing that scares me though is that Jose will be the guy the other teams would want !
There is no way Jarrett goes on the trading block. He's cheaper than Jose, tougher and an ironman to boot. He's been one of the most durable guards in the game. He also attacks the basket better than any other small on our roster, that alone makes him extremely valuable. Trading him before Jose, would be a huge mistake.
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Old 01-05-2010, 09:56 PM   #14 (permalink)
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There is no way Jarrett goes on the trading block. He's cheaper than Jose, tougher and an ironman to boot. He's been one of the most durable guards in the game. He also attacks the basket better than any other small on our roster, that alone makes him extremely valuable. Trading him before Jose, would be a huge mistake.
Agreed!

Jose = No drive & kick game!
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I dunno, Jose can penetrate and get to the basket as easily as anyone in the game. He doesn't do it often, only when he needs to... like when Bosh and Bargs are both nursing their hurt vaginas are start settling for jumpers, leading to a run by the other team. Jose is as savvy as any guard in the league. He knows when to get the the basket on his own and when to let his teammates play though their shooting woes.

Say what you want about his defense, but we can not replace his smarts, his understanding of our system, and his basketball IQ with Jack's 'toughness' and willingness to drive and dish. They're two players that offer two different things when they're in the game. Both are effective, and both can be great.

But then again, Jose is our most valuable (realistic) trading chip unless BC is getting signs from Bosh about leaving this summer. He is also the most dispensable, it seems, with Jack and Banks holding down the fort pretty well in his absence.

Still, parting with him shouldn't be the result of a dozen games where Jack and Banks have been above average. I'm still more than a little nervous with Jack's start to the season and Banks' ability to come off the bench for more than 10-15 mins/game. And remember, in the loss to Boston, we desperately could have used Jose. Neither Jack nor Banks were doing shit (along with the rest of the team).

The way I see it, our versatility at the PG position is one of our strong cards. We shouldn't part with something good unless we're sure that what we get in return will be just as beneficial. If we can somehow land Gerald Wallace (no way) or Caron Butler (more likely), it makes sense. But trading Jose for a marginal SG whose strongest asset is his ability to score (Martin or Ellis) seems dumb to me. We can put up enough points. We need a leader and a defensive player. Though Jose is bad on D, he has shown a lot of heart over the last few years and has been a consistent leader on the team. Will we get that in return?
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:49 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I'm still more than a little nervous with Jack's start to the season and Banks' ability to come off the bench for more than 10-15 mins/game. And remember, in the loss to Boston, we desperately could have used Jose. Neither Jack nor Banks were doing shit (along with the rest of the team).
Wow Jose was playing just as bad or worse than Jack at the start of the season so what are you really meaning in your above sentence?

As much as I like Jose & his offensive game his defence is by far the worst I have ever seen.
Even when Jack was playing like shit the same time as Jose his defence was still better.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:04 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Wow Jose was playing just as bad or worse than Jack at the start of the season so what are you really meaning in your above sentence?

As much as I like Jose & his offensive game his defence is by far the worst I have ever seen.
Even when Jack was playing like shit the same time as Jose his defence was still better.
I'm not saying his defense was better; Jose's defense on a very good night is still pretty below-average, and definitely below Jack's.

But Jack was absolute shit in the first month of the season. I've always loved the guy (since he played with Bosh at GT and all) and I wanted him to come to the Raps, so I was really happy when BC landed him. But I was almost shocked by how bad he was at the start. Sure, a better defender than Jose, but he was missing wide open shots and looked like a third-string PG running the team instead of a guy fighting for the starting spot (the guy we see now).

I'm not really faulting Jack; it's a whole new system to adjust to and a whole new set of players' tendencies to learn. Also, the Jose/Jack combo that Triano so liked wasn't really suited to either player's game. But in my opinion, it's not really Jack's emergence that has propelled us to our winning of late; I think it's due to a more cohesive and trusting unit. I'm glad that Triano is starting Jack tomorrow because the team's played well, and there is no need to disrupt the chemistry. But ultimately, having both Jose and Jack is indisputably a good thing for us, and not something that we should throw away just yet.
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:10 PM   #18 (permalink)
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But Jack was absolute shit in the first month of the season.
So was Jose & Lets leave it at that...
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Old 01-06-2010, 06:54 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I dunno, Jose can penetrate and get to the basket as easily as anyone in the game. He doesn't do it often, only when he needs to... like when Bosh and Bargs are both nursing their hurt vaginas are start settling for jumpers, leading to a run by the other team. Jose is as savvy as any guard in the league. He knows when to get the the basket on his own and when to let his teammates play though their shooting woes.

Say what you want about his defense, but we can not replace his smarts, his understanding of our system, and his basketball IQ with Jack's 'toughness' and willingness to drive and dish. They're two players that offer two different things when they're in the game. Both are effective, and both can be great.

But then again, Jose is our most valuable (realistic) trading chip unless BC is getting signs from Bosh about leaving this summer. He is also the most dispensable, it seems, with Jack and Banks holding down the fort pretty well in his absence.

Still, parting with him shouldn't be the result of a dozen games where Jack and Banks have been above average. I'm still more than a little nervous with Jack's start to the season and Banks' ability to come off the bench for more than 10-15 mins/game. And remember, in the loss to Boston, we desperately could have used Jose. Neither Jack nor Banks were doing shit (along with the rest of the team).

The way I see it, our versatility at the PG position is one of our strong cards. We shouldn't part with something good unless we're sure that what we get in return will be just as beneficial. If we can somehow land Gerald Wallace (no way) or Caron Butler (more likely), it makes sense. But trading Jose for a marginal SG whose strongest asset is his ability to score (Martin or Ellis) seems dumb to me. We can put up enough points. We need a leader and a defensive player. Though Jose is bad on D, he has shown a lot of heart over the last few years and has been a consistent leader on the team. Will we get that in return?
Great post. Some people at this forum are ready to trade Calderon for a bag of basketballs. He's a very good player. We can't trade him unless we're getting something good in return.
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:11 AM   #20 (permalink)
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It's not surprising. Just imagine if Jose didn't go down with his injury, that line up would have feasted during that stretch against the weaker inury riddled teams. But instead our back up Jack held his own and didn't fuck up. Where is Jacks name anyway ?? lol

The more stories that come out don't be surprised that Jack could be the one on the block. Both Jack and Banks got to audition their skills while Jose was out so maybe Jack is on his way out. As I stated 1000 times numbers don't lie. The only thing that scares me though is that Jose will be the guy the other teams would want !
what the hell. Why would we possibly want to trade Jack?

You know... it is possible to be a fan of one player and not feel the need to completely hate the other guy who plays the same position.

I'm a big Calderon backer, but i find your lobsided approach to supporting the guy a bit detrimental to actually supporting the team.
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