ESPN: Raptors 10th in the East - Page 3
Old 08-13-2013, 03:12 PM   #41 (permalink)
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when exactly was that? I can't remember at any time during the colangelo tenure when we tanked. It was my biggest criticism of colangelo, his misguided approach of rushing things that cannot be rushed.

You seem to truly believe that the reason this team sucked defensively was colangelo and bargnani, which to me is hard to understand. Even if BC meddled a lot, ultimately I doubt he told casey or the players how to play the game, and Bargnani missed 70% of the past two seasons.

I agree that we have a chance to be improved defensively with JV making big strides in that area and by shedding guys like Bargnani and calderon. But I can't see us being better than a mid-pack defense next season, not with a bench that sucks balls and still 3 starters who are either not very good or not trying very hard on D (demar, gay and JV). We have little interior defense because JV and Amir are decent shot blocker, but not great ones, we still have no defensive stopper on the wings, we still have a gay/demar pair that is far more focused on offense than defense and only lowry can have a major impact if he wants to.
Where did I say they tanked?

And where are you getting this idea about my beliefs? Yes, no Bargnani Calderon and Colangelo helps. A ton. And having a team that doesn't need to be a mish mash to compensate for weaknesses in one important area, or with players thinking they are here to expand their offensive game so they can satisfy the GM's fetish, that helps a ton.

When Boston won it all they did practically nothing but work on their defense, even after they were well established as being elite stoppers. Toronto had some success with a lot of hacking, and the GM was all gung ho about getting the offense revved up more. This team has the tools to be effective defensively. They are going to have to put in as much work as Boston did to ensure the emphasis stays in place. That is what will make the difference. Look at how the change in emphasis helped the Warriors. it's pretty much a necessity for winning in this league, especially over the long term. Without that necessary commitment they might as well be quick to make some savvy moves that will get this team positioned right before any draft night.
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Old 08-13-2013, 03:29 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Good point. It's also just essentially filler in a downtime for the website.

As for LA, it's not true that the whole world had the winning a bunch. I thought it was hard to see how Nash was going to be effective when Kobe always needs the ball, or turn that around. And I just couldn't see such a bad defensive team, a year older and slower, getting any better on that end with the addition of one heartless wonder who was very likely to be spending another year being a distraction. That team was hype. It was not about injuries. It was about not being able to come together as a team, and that could have been predicted. Even if not so, wrong is wrong, and meaningless filler is meaningless filler.
They did come together as a team in the second half. So while I think you are right, it was fair to predict chemistry problems and see flaws within the roster, it also was fair to predict that without all the injuries and with proper coaching, they were going to come together sooner.

That's especially important if we are talking about winning the conference during the playoffs (as opposed to having the best regular season record).

D'Antoni's personality management was horrific. His treatment of Pau was on some level insulting to me personally as a general basketball fan. Pau has accomplished so much, and he has sacrificed his body so much, playing huge minutes and missing basically no games over the last few years. And D'Antoni was using him as a whipping boy, basically. Pau had tendinosis in both knees. Granger shut it down because of tendinosis in one knee, because he couldn't handle the pain. Pau kept playing. It's a testament to his character. So it's ridiculous how he was being treated, by the coach nonetheless, and no surprise that this coach failed to get the most out of his team until late in the season.

If one doesn't know about mis-coaching and unpredictable injuries, it seems fair to think that they'd at least win 50+ games and then be very dangerous in the playoffs because of their size.
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Old 08-13-2013, 03:33 PM   #43 (permalink)
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They did come together as a team in the second half. So while I think you are right, it was fair to predict chemistry problems and see flaws within the roster, it also was fair to predict that without all the injuries and with proper coaching, they were going to come together sooner.

That's especially important if we are talking about winning the conference during the playoffs (as opposed to having the best regular season record).

D'Antoni's personality management was horrific. His treatment of Pau was on some level insulting to me personally as a general basketball fan. Pau has accomplished so much, and he has sacrificed his body so much, playing huge minutes and missing basically no games over the last few years. And D'Antoni was using him as a whipping boy, basically. Pau had tendinosis in both knees. Granger shut it down because of tendinosis in one knee, because he couldn't handle the pain. Pau kept playing. It's a testament to his character. So it's ridiculous how he was being treated, by the coach nonetheless, and no surprise that this coach failed to get the most out of his team until late in the season.

If one doesn't know about mis-coaching and unpredictable injuries, it seems fair to think that they'd at least win 50+ games and then be very dangerous in the playoffs because of their size.
+1 Well written, especially regarding Pau.
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Old 08-13-2013, 04:26 PM   #44 (permalink)
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The defense was going to suck, and it was just hard to see how Nash and Kobe both get the ball enough. I hate Dantoni, but I wouldn't wish that team on any coach. There was no breaking a certain ceiling with the obvious flaws there.
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Old 08-13-2013, 05:10 PM   #45 (permalink)
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The defense was going to suck, and it was just hard to see how Nash and Kobe both get the ball enough. I hate Dantoni, but I wouldn't wish that team on any coach. There was no breaking a certain ceiling with the obvious flaws there.
I disagree. D'antoni showed himself to be ineffective coaching the team and their particular skillset and especially with Kobe that outright took over and told Nash and Mike that Kobe had the ball now, and Kobe will have the game go through him and that's the Kobe...errrr.....Laker way. That's not the D'antoni way - that's not the Nash way. Wrong coach for a team with a skill set that he doesn't prefer. Now Pringles is going to make Hill a stretch 4 LOL and is going to push the ball with Kobe (cause Kobe says so) at the pg and Nash as a spot up shooter at the 2. Might as well pencil in the line of Kobe/Nash/N.Young/Pau/Kaman with Blake/Meeks/Hill off the bench. The team will go as far as Kobe stays healthy and Kobe is pissed so he will go on a tear for the whole season (something you can bank on with Kobe). Then, when Kobe goes down again, the team will look more like a Pringles team with Nash manning the point. Then they will collapse out of the playoffs and win the lottery and draft Wiggins <----I've already seen the script on Silver's desk - so let it be written, so it shall be done.

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Old 08-13-2013, 05:55 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Kobe and Nick Young is the new Jordan and Pippen
















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Old 08-13-2013, 06:28 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Kobe and Nick Young is the new Jordan and Pippen


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Old 08-13-2013, 06:33 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Pau had tendinosis in both knees.
Tendinosis ... as a result of this he tended to play like crap for long periods.
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:08 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Tendinosis ... as a result of this he tended to play like crap for long periods.
He was playing through both plantar fasciitis and tendinosis. Injuries tend to make hinder a players ability to play basketball. Are you really going to argue that?
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:09 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Nick Young is Jordan
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Old 08-13-2013, 08:07 PM   #51 (permalink)
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He was playing through both plantar fasciitis and tendinosis. Injuries tend to make hinder a players ability to play basketball. Are you really going to argue that?
Just lol.
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Old 08-13-2013, 08:15 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Just lol.
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:48 PM   #53 (permalink)
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10th is terrible. I'd rather be 14th or 15th then be between 6th-10th.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:25 PM   #54 (permalink)
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10th is terrible. I'd rather be 14th or 15th then be between 6th-10th.
6th isn't that bad so long as your team actually looks promising and could be a contender in the future. But 7-11, as Leiweke calls it, sucks.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:29 PM   #55 (permalink)
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6th isn't that bad so long as your team actually looks promising and could be a contender in the future. But 7-11, as Leiweke calls it, sucks.
i'd take 6-7-8 atp and be happy
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:31 PM   #56 (permalink)
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i'd take 6-7-8 atp and be happy
I wouldn't.
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:27 AM   #57 (permalink)
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NBA: 2013 Summer Forecast -- East standings - ESPN

Their predictions:
1.Miami (60-22)
2.Chicago (55-27)
3.Indiana (54-28)
4.Brooklyn (53-29)
5.New York (48-34)
6.Atlanta (40-42)
7.Washington (39-43)
8.Cleveland (39-43)
9.Detroit (38-44)
10.Toronto (33-49)
11.Milwaukee (31-51)
12.Boston (29-53)
13.Charlotte. (26-56)
14.Orlando (24-58)
15.Philadelphia (20-62)
I think Toronto will win more than ESPN has predicted with 36 but finish in one less spot at 11th. To me the East has improved since last season and it will take more than 41 wins to make the playoffs.
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:43 PM   #58 (permalink)
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I think Toronto will win more than ESPN has predicted with 36 but finish in one less spot at 11th. To me the East has improved since last season and it will take more than 41 wins to make the playoffs.
The bottom half hasn't improved much imo. And it won't take more then 41 wins to get 8th.
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:05 PM   #59 (permalink)
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So basically NBA Siberia... bad enough to miss playoffs, but good enough to miss a franchise changing pick.. and still frustrating as fuck to watch..

At least tanking, could give us something to look forward to come June.
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:05 PM   #60 (permalink)
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The bottom half hasn't improved much imo. And it won't take more then 41 wins to get 8th.
Nice AVI Jeff
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