ESPN: Raptors 10th in the East - Page 2
Old 08-12-2013, 09:48 PM   #21 (permalink)
finding your post helpful

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Well they predicted OKC or LAL in the finals vs Miami. One didn't make the playoffs, the other was taken out in the second round. Most of them if not all of them never predicted SAS getting to the finals.
lakers got swept by the spurs
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:51 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Well they predicted OKC or LAL in the finals vs Miami. One didn't make the playoffs, the other was taken out in the second round. Most of them if not all of them never predicted SAS getting to the finals.
Lakers got killed by injuries though (same with Boston) + predicting a team like the Lakers is crazy hard because of the new additions. On paper, P&R of howard and nash with gasol and kobe for support should be unstoppable. Everybody was actually down on them in the regular season due to their bench, but had high expectations in the playoffs where the bench is not as important.

As for the predictions for us, the more I think about it, the more I agree with them. I'm hoping for something slightly lower, in the 27-29 range, but it all depends on:

1. are we going to hover around .450 or so by the end of January (if not, a blow out is pretty much inevitable).
2. are we going to get an offer we can't refuse for lowry/gay way before the deadline (unlikely).

Bottom line is, unless we're winning 40+ games, I can't see MU keeping the team past the deadline. Given his reputation and my hopes, it will be a good blowout that may result in us winning only 7-10 games after that
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:56 PM   #23 (permalink)
to each his own.

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Originally Published: October 30, 2012
man so many Captain Hindsights here!
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:58 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Bottom line is, unless we're winning 40+ games, I can't see MU keeping the team past the deadline. Given his reputation and my hopes, it will be a good blowout that may result in us winning only 7-10 games after that
I agree there. If this team by Christmas is in 11th place, 10 games below .500 come January 1st MU will be looking to overhaul the roster. He might not even wait that long. This team staying together for the season depends on a good start which imo comes down to health and Casey getting this team to play D like two seasons ago. This team is in a tenuous situation and has very little margin for error. MU is patient to a degree but he's shown a propensity for making moves and not hesitating. The first 20-30 games should be extremely interesting.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:00 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Way to twist up my words. I have expressly stated this team doesn't suck. I don't see them becoming a contender barring some miracle but that's a story for another day. If I didn't intend to watch games I wouldn't be on this thread. Unlike you I will watch them through thick and thin. And before you go on about me being condescending, I simply fight fire with fire

And yeah, not like Boston's best player tore his ACL or anything, but ok. Milwaukee got into the playoffs by default, if that's what you want for this team, we're on completely different pages. That Philadelphia prediction definitely depended on Bynum's health, which was non-existent last year. These were significant injuries, unlike the ones that should be assummed will happen over the course of a season.

You think we have an advantage on them chemistry wise, I think they have an advantage talent wise.
I don't think you are condescending. I just think you are a little obsessed with a somewhat abstract idea of a future superstar. You laugh at people for thinking this team could win particular games, but now you say you don't think they suck. If they are under .500 then they suck. It will not be worth watching, for me anyways, and I have barely missed a game through the last few shitty years. Enough is enough already. This team has enough to get something done. If they won't then I won't bother to care. Nor will I join in with others who hope they lose game by game. I've been there and done that. I can see where you don't see this team becoming a contender, and no they won't in the short-term. But they can win and build an identity over the next two or three years and add the right players to go from there. It really will not take a miracle. Just building a team for long-term success for the first time, and it's about time.

As for the predictions, wrong is wrong. They mean nothing. Boston was not winning with Rondo. They got better when he was hurt. They were not going to win over 50 games. They were dead wrong. And there was plenty of talk about LA winning it all on ESPN. You aren't honestly going to deny that.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:00 PM   #26 (permalink)
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lakers got swept by the spurs
I keep thinking they missed the playoffs....
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:27 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I agree there. If this team by Christmas is in 11th place, 10 games below .500 come January 1st MU will be looking to overhaul the roster. He might not even wait that long. This team staying together for the season depends on a good start which imo comes down to health and Casey getting this team to play D like two seasons ago. This team is in a tenuous situation and has very little margin for error. MU is patient to a degree but he's shown a propensity for making moves and not hesitating. The first 20-30 games should be extremely interesting.
I would say he will make moves as quickly as he can in terms of players not committing to defense. If losses come along as well, then he will look to make moves that offer more flexibility going forward. But I don't know about a complete overhaul. Losing would likely mean the end of the line for two of Lowry, DD and Gay. Hopefully for some good value.

I also think the team needs to improve on the defense of two years ago. That was a bit of fool's gold. The condensed schedule, and a lot of fouling, made the defense look more effective than it was. They needed to improve on it last season. That's where they went wrong in focusing too much on offense. But I thought they did turn it around and figured out a lot before the season ended. Now they need to keep that proper focus. If they do they will have a decent margin for error. It's when they rely too much on scoring that the margin gets very slim.

What I saw at the end of the season was a balanced group that could execute well on both ends. I think they have added some guys that can add to that ability. That doesn't come easily. A team like OKC doesn't do it - they do very well, but ultimately fail based on individual talent. They would be happy to find the means of better execution. I think Toronto is miles ahead of the younger teams in those terms. It's the kind of thing that wins the sort of games that were lost before. So if the wins don't come they need to figure out who is responsible and pull the trigger if they can. Completely starting from scratch will mean a length of time before they can get all the pieces working together properly. Ujiri really needs to be savvy here, while moving fast when necessary.
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:14 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Nor will I join in with others who hope they lose game by game. I've been there and done that.
when exactly was that? I can't remember at any time during the colangelo tenure when we tanked. It was my biggest criticism of colangelo, his misguided approach of rushing things that cannot be rushed.

You seem to truly believe that the reason this team sucked defensively was colangelo and bargnani, which to me is hard to understand. Even if BC meddled a lot, ultimately I doubt he told casey or the players how to play the game, and Bargnani missed 70% of the past two seasons.

I agree that we have a chance to be improved defensively with JV making big strides in that area and by shedding guys like Bargnani and calderon. But I can't see us being better than a mid-pack defense next season, not with a bench that sucks balls and still 3 starters who are either not very good or not trying very hard on D (demar, gay and JV). We have little interior defense because JV and Amir are decent shot blocker, but not great ones, we still have no defensive stopper on the wings, we still have a gay/demar pair that is far more focused on offense than defense and only lowry can have a major impact if he wants to.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:53 AM   #29 (permalink)
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lmao okc was the best team in the west. one of the most durable guys in the league had a freak injury. you're acting like they were completely off the wall with that prediction. and the lakers one was crazy but the whole world was wrong there. that team on paper looked like dynamite
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Well they predicted OKC or LAL in the finals vs Miami. One didn't make the playoffs, the other was taken out in the second round. Most of them if not all of them never predicted SAS getting to the finals.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:56 AM   #30 (permalink)
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we did actively tank in a colangelo year. the year Bosh left. that was it. one year. well it was a year where fans cheered for losses at least.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:59 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Got to keep in mind that some ESPNers are judging based on the current roster, and some likely expect a tank at some point.

If you made a poll on this site, I expect the medium would also end up low 30s in wins.
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Old 08-13-2013, 11:09 AM   #32 (permalink)
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lmao okc was the best team in the west. one of the most durable guys in the league had a freak injury. you're acting like they were completely off the wall with that prediction. and the lakers one was crazy but the whole world was wrong there. that team on paper looked like dynamite
Also, the Lakers too had injuries. When it comes to Nash or Steve Blake, people can say that maybe that was sort of predictable, they had issues before and they got a year older.

But Kobe, Pau and Jordan Hill? Kobe and Hill were freak injuries, could happen to anyone. And Pau Gasol has generally been a freak in terms of durability for a 7 footer.

On top of it, they had no way of knowing that the Lakers will be coached by D'Antoni and play Gasol at the 3pt line for stretches.
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Old 08-13-2013, 11:48 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Also, the Lakers too had injuries. When it comes to Nash or Steve Blake, people can say that maybe that was sort of predictable, they had issues before and they got a year older.

But Kobe, Pau and Jordan Hill? Kobe and Hill were freak injuries, could happen to anyone. And Pau Gasol has generally been a freak in terms of durability for a 7 footer.

On top of it, they had no way of knowing that the Lakers will be coached by D'Antoni and play Gasol at the 3pt line for stretches.
yup the lakers had a really weird and unpredictable season. starting with the coaching change and injuries. but still claiming theyd be in the finals i think is kind of ridiculous. so i let that one go.

but youre right that we shouldnt use hindsight here to bash these predictions, because there were plenty of unpredictable things that popped up for the lakers making their year crazy.
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Old 08-13-2013, 01:15 PM   #34 (permalink)
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we did actively tank in a colangelo year. the year Bosh left. that was it. one year. well it was a year where fans cheered for losses at least.
you mean the year we signed kleiza, amir and tried to trade for chandler?
you are mistaken, that year we didn't tank, we just sucked ...
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Old 08-13-2013, 02:01 PM   #35 (permalink)
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you mean the year we signed kleiza, amir and tried to trade for chandler?
you are mistaken, that year we didn't tank, we just sucked ...
we couldnt trade for chandler. but i did change the post to saying " a year where Raptors fans could cheer for a loss" because i do remember us trying to improve. b/c if im not mistaken your point was that lx hasnt "been there and done that" by hoping for losses when in reality there was one year.

i think Raptors fans exaggerate and so for the most part i agree with your post.
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Old 08-13-2013, 02:02 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Almost zero chance we finish with 35 wins and in 9th (+-). We are a winning team by 40 games or we have 15 wins in 40 games and he trades away the entire core (especially Gay and Lowry which may expire/do expire) and we barely win another. There is no chance of a "kind of pregnant" or "kind of playoff team" this year... unless we are 35 and 35 and lose the last 12 games. So everyone saying we just miss, might want to think about things.
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Old 08-13-2013, 02:05 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Almost zero chance we finish with 35 wins and in 9th (+-). We are a winning team by 40 games or we have 15 wins in 40 games and he trades away the entire core (especially Gay and Lowry which may expire/do expire) and we barely win another. There is no chance of a "kind of pregnant" or "kind of playoff team" this year... unless we are 35 and 35 and lose the last 12 games. So everyone saying we just miss, might want to think about things.
i agree and think this will happen, hopefully we dont blow it up before its too late though because then we cant suck that bad with the celtics, bobcats, sixers, bucks already having a head start.
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Old 08-13-2013, 02:28 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I don't get how people think the bucks are that bad. They're bad but not bad enough to keep up with tanking teams
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Old 08-13-2013, 02:44 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Almost zero chance we finish with 35 wins and in 9th (+-). We are a winning team by 40 games or we have 15 wins in 40 games and he trades away the entire core (especially Gay and Lowry which may expire/do expire) and we barely win another. There is no chance of a "kind of pregnant" or "kind of playoff team" this year... unless we are 35 and 35 and lose the last 12 games. So everyone saying we just miss, might want to think about things.
+1
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Old 08-13-2013, 02:56 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Got to keep in mind that some ESPNers are judging based on the current roster, and some likely expect a tank at some point.

If you made a poll on this site, I expect the medium would also end up low 30s in wins.
Good point. It's also just essentially filler in a downtime for the website.

As for LA, it's not true that the whole world had the winning a bunch. I thought it was hard to see how Nash was going to be effective when Kobe always needs the ball, or turn that around. And I just couldn't see such a bad defensive team, a year older and slower, getting any better on that end with the addition of one heartless wonder who was very likely to be spending another year being a distraction. That team was hype. It was not about injuries. It was about not being able to come together as a team, and that could have been predicted. Even if not so, wrong is wrong, and meaningless filler is meaningless filler.
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