ESPN Panel: Rudy Gay most overrated small forward - Page 5
Old 08-06-2013, 01:49 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post


As usual, you can't handle when your argument has a flaw in it...
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:02 PM   #82 (permalink)
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I wasn't speaking about his ranking, that was fair. I'm talking about his 'style' of play comment you made. Yea, I consider that a shot at Rudy, as in putting him down. Was I wrong to assume to think so? It's the usual KoolAid making a shot at the either the starters, bench, or coaching staff comments.
Rudy at this stage is very inefficient and I'm really not buying that this lasik or w/e is going to make him a much better player. The bench and coaching staff (casery at least) both deserve to get ragged on. Neither, especially the bench, are very good at all. The bench would be one of the worst in the playoffs if we were to go that far.

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And I expect 20-22, 6-7, 3 1.5-1.7 steals, and nearly a block. That's not overrating him. You think I am? I don't see it.
If it's the top 5/6 thing, read on...
I dunno maybe its just me but I'm not going to be overly optimistic and expect career numbers from Rudy.

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Yea, my opinion can be changed. I meant through arguing atm, I can't change your opinion, and vice versa. I want to see if this team truly can make the playoffs. I'm not sure if I said it already somewhere else, if we're not .500 very very early on, I don't mind the tank- REGARDLESS of injuries. Yea, believe it or not those would likely BE the reason, either way I'd still take the team down. You think if Rudy was injured and not playing and we were 7 games below .500, it'd be cause Rudy was injured? You would, right? Either way, at that point you and me would see eye to eye, and go to tanking. The issue between you and me is you don't want to sneak into the playoffs, and obv get the first round exit- I do. You want to build through tanking, and getting picks- I think that it's too early to through everything away, as in there is no reason to do that at this very moment. I want to build through winning, and through the draft, (The evil BC words) internal growth and build from FA, after we get rid of bad contracts on this team through the years. I think we can rid of bad contracts if we're winning, and probably can't if we're losing and tanking - You think it's flawed cause, I guess, you don't think we'll win in the first place, and the contracts are too hefty for FA's - eventhough I'm not talking about JUST next year.
Different philosophies I guess. Tank for picks for few years, then build through FA/Draft/trades/internal growth vs. Win build through FA/Draft/Trades/internal growth.
I'm not turning this into another tank vs treadmill thread but injuries occur to every team, that's not an excuse. And internal growth after drafting top 5 players is something you can actually reasonably expect. But with our roster as is, 3/5 of our starters are already in their primes and they are what they are.

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You throw shots at me whilst you're arguing with others(the top 5 starting line up stat), and I didn't get butt hurt of that, what you said after got me posting what I did. And you mock my position on the whole anti-tank, lack of respect? Perhaps you always lack respect towards others POV. My bad assuming you were decent. Sorry, you didn't throw shots at me at all. I just had a feeling you were doing all that cause we were exchanging insults a few weeks ago.
Did you or did you not use the starting lineup stat as evidence our starting lineup is one of the best in the league? A wise man once said "he uses statistics like a drunk man uses a lamp pole: for support rather than illumination."

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Nope, I found it hilarious too dude. It was sooo funny. Great sense of humor.
If you're going to be sarcastic, do it well.


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When you argue 'who's a better player' I put them in the same situation. If Deng was asked to score big, he'd do a clearly worse job than Rudy. If you asked those two to lockdown a player at the SAME TIME, Deng would do slightly better. Deng as a third option can't be compared to Gay as a no.1 because it's unfair. Deng plays off Rose, Noah, Boozer. So his numbers are going to look more efficient (sadly, they barley are that much more efficient than Gay's) since he plays off them, he puts less energy on offense and can focus and put all his energy on defense. That's how I see this subjective argument of top 10 best sorta things.
Yeah, no. Deng is a better defender than rudy. Its not by miles but it's not a photo finish either. You and me both agree rudy would be best as a 2nd or maybe 3rd option. My issue is why couldn't he settle into that role in Memphis. It shows me that a player like that needs to be a number one otherwise their efficiency drops and you can't really run your offence through rudy either.
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stated that Rudy ACTUALLY is a great/good/legit no.1 option for contentions, no where at all. And you didn't say in the post I was replying to that 'without a good supporting cast', and you still don't see a flaw in that? MJ can't win without a good supporting cast. No one can.
Okay, then why are you arguing with me? You must think he is a good number 1 option if you argue with me stating that I don't think he can win a championship as a number 1 without a great supporting cast. If you didn't see that part, check my response to jeffb where I likened rudy to a lesser melo. By good supporting cast, I meant relatively good, in comparison to other championship team. MJ had the best supporting cast ever, no argument there, clearly helped him be dominant for a whole era.
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And I'll write it again, eventhough I wrote it in this post already just to make it clear. When we're talking about 'top 10' I put players in the same position, I see Deng as a spot up, lock-down defender... That's it- that's his limit. He DOES do that better than Gay does at 'scoring' IF I was arguing who's better at their roles- 'top 10' than Gay would be in the place where you put him 7-8 or w/e.
I personally think that top 10 would be who produces most and most efficiently. Regardless of role. Top 10 of anything should be who was/is playing better, not who you think could do better in x role. Rudy couldn't do Deng's job with the bulls either because:
A. He's not a lockdown defender
B. He's not a good spot up shooter

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Yea, it was kinda the point why I chose him, I was making the point that he can contend with a good supporting cast since I didn't see you write in the post I was replying too that you said 'without a good supporting cast', miss-communication. We're on the same page.
Well I dunno if you missed what I said last time, but Butler was out so you would be asking him to be as good as shawn marion, which I think if you want to say Rudy's as good as marion, you might be selling him short . And Gay wouldn't have been the #1 option on that team, it would have been dirk so it's irrelevant anyways.

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Missed the point, you take a player who's nearly worth the same contract as him - Butler's 11 mill? or 12? Can't remember-, his 'style of play' is still compatible with a contention team. The point is his style isn't the problem.
Again, it's irrelevant but that 11 or 12 million is a far cry from Rudy's 17 million. His style is the problem...its the same reason the Knicks aren't going to win a championship anytime soon and are viewed as the weakest of the top 5 in the east. A ball dominant SF who likes to shoot a lot of midrange jumpers despite being inefficient.

Last edited by KoolAid; 08-06-2013 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:03 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
Rudy at this stage is very inefficient and I'm really not buying that this lasik or w/e is going to make him a much better player. The bench and coaching staff (casery at least) both deserve to get ragged on. Neither, especially the bench, are very good at all. The bench would be one of the worst in the playoffs if we were to go that far.



I dunno maybe its just me but I'm not going to be overly optimistic and expect career numbers from Rudy.


I'm not turning this into another tank vs treadmill thread but injuries occur to every team, that's not an excuse. And internal growth after drafting top 5 players is something you can actually reasonably expect. But with our roster as is, 3/5 of our starters are already in their primes and they are what they are.


Did you or did you not use the starting lineup stat as evidence our starting lineup is one of the best in the league? A wise man once said "he uses statistics like a drunk man uses a lamp pole: for support rather than illumination."


If you're going to be sarcastic, do it well.



Yeah, no. Deng is a better defender than rudy. Its not by miles but it's not a photo finish either. You and me both agree rudy would be best as a 2nd or maybe 3rd option. My issue is why couldn't he settle into that role in Memphis. It shows me that a player like that needs to be a number one otherwise their efficiency drops and you can't really run your offence through rudy either.

Okay, then why are you arguing with me? You must think he is a good number 1 option if you argue with me stating that I don't think he can win a championship as a number 1 without a great supporting cast. If you didn't see that part, check my response to jeffb where I likened rudy to a lesser melo. By good supporting cast, I meant relatively good, in comparison to other championship team. MJ had the best supporting cast ever, no argument there, clearly helped him be dominant for a whole era.

I personally think that top 10 would be who produces most and most efficiently. Regardless of role. Top 10 of anything should be who was/is playing better, not who you think could do better in x role. Rudy couldn't do Deng's job with the bulls either because:
A. He's not a lockdown defender
B. He's not a good spot up shooter


Well I dunno if you missed what I said last time, but Butler was out so you would be asking him to be as good as shawn marion, which I think if you want to say Rudy's as good as marion, you might be selling him short . And Gay wouldn't have been the #1 option on that team, it would have been dirk so it's irrelevant anyways.



Again, it's irrelevant but that 11 or 12 million is a far cry from Rudy's 17 million. His style is the problem...its the same reason the Knicks aren't going to win a championship anytime soon and are viewed as the weakest of the top 5 in the east. A ball dominant SF who likes to shoot a lot of midrange jumpers despite being inefficient.
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:10 PM   #84 (permalink)
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I'm sure that if the team insisted on the eye surgery, it likely will help his game.... suggesting his eyes being corrected won't help seems silly. It won't correct his shot selection, but he is our best wing player by a significant amount so hopefully it helps a lot.
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:14 PM   #85 (permalink)
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I'm sure that if the team insisted on the eye surgery, it likely will help his game.... suggesting his eyes being corrected won't help seems silly. It won't correct his shot selection, but he is our best wing player by a significant amount so hopefully it helps a lot.
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:43 PM   #86 (permalink)
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I'm sure that if the team insisted on the eye surgery, it likely will help his game.... suggesting his eyes being corrected won't help seems silly. It won't correct his shot selection, but he is our best wing player by a significant amount so hopefully it helps a lot.
I am totally for hoping that it does improve him, tank or not, but I'm not for banking on it or expecting that it makes a significant difference. I guess I don't want to be let down.

I highly doubt it's bad to the point where it was actually affecting his shooting that much. It's likely not going to change that he's 21st in mid-range FGA despite shooting 27% from 16-23ft as a raptor.

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Old 08-06-2013, 04:50 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by KoolAid View Post
I am totally for hoping that it does improve him, tank or not, but I'm not for banking on it or expecting that it makes a significant difference. I guess I don't want to be let down.

I highly doubt it's bad to the point where it was actually affecting his shooting that much. It's likely not going to change that he's 21st in mid-range FGA despite shooting 27% from 16-23ft as a raptor.
Ever had vision problems? If they're recommending it, it must have been pretty bad.

My concern is more about the fact that we're still going to have too much perimeter chucking.
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:44 PM   #88 (permalink)
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I highly doubt it's bad to the point where it was actually affecting his shooting that much. It's likely not going to change that he's 21st in mid-range FGA despite shooting 27% from 16-23ft as a raptor.
He probably had them operate on his eyes because they wanted to change the colour. You know... its only eyes.. kind of like a haircut. No other reason at all.
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