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-   -   Ed Davis isn't getting a fair shot (http://www.raptorsforum.com/f/f5/ed-davis-isnt-getting-fair-shot-24022.html)

Thug 11-12-2012 11:54 AM

Ed Davis isn't getting a fair shot
 
Quote:

Davis is playing just 13:30 per night, including a combined nine minutes in Toronto’s last two games.

Head coach Dwane Casey would say the amount Davis plays is entirely up to him.

“I asked him a while ago: I said, ‘Has anybody seen Ed Davis?’ He played well [last Sunday against] Minnesota. He was a big-time factor, he and Amir [Johnson],” Casey said. “He changed the game against Minnesota. Since then, I don’t know. He hasn’t been the same.”

That might be what Casey has seen, but it does not seem entirely fair to Davis. The main reason Davis has struggled to find minutes is because of the Raptors’ roster composition.

Andrea Bargnani is one of the few Raptors capable of scoring in bulk. Jonas Valanciunas is one of the Raptors’ great hopes, a potential rebounding and defensive demon. Johnson is the team’s best interior defender, a particularly good match for Bargnani when factoring in the latter’s defensive and rebounding shortcomings. So no matter how well Davis has played — and, frankly, the sample size is too small to come to a meaningful conclusion — he will always be less of a priority for Casey than the other three players.


Toronto Raptors waiting for Ed Davis to define himself | NBA | Sports | National Post

Thug 11-12-2012 11:55 AM

I really liked the way Ed played during the preseason, and was excited to see it translate to more playing time this season. Sadly, it just hasn't happened.

Either trade him or utilize him.

LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! 11-12-2012 11:56 AM

just read it.

the whole article:

Quote:

For the sake of this hypothetical query, pretend Ed Davis was a swingman — a small forward rather than a power forward, with the skill set for that position and with production similar to what he has provided the Toronto Raptors so far.

If that were the reality, how often would Davis be playing?

It is impossible to answer that question, since it only exists in the reality of an alternate dimension. It is certain, though, that he would be earning more floor time than he is now. Davis is playing just 13:30 per night, including a combined nine minutes in Toronto’s last two games.

Head coach Dwane Casey would say the amount Davis plays is entirely up to him.

“I asked him a while ago: I said, ‘Has anybody seen Ed Davis?’ He played well [last Sunday against] Minnesota. He was a big-time factor, he and Amir [Johnson],” Casey said. “He changed the game against Minnesota. Since then, I don’t know. He hasn’t been the same.”

That might be what Casey has seen, but it does not seem entirely fair to Davis. The main reason Davis has struggled to find minutes is because of the Raptors’ roster composition.

Andrea Bargnani is one of the few Raptors capable of scoring in bulk. Jonas Valanciunas is one of the Raptors’ great hopes, a potential rebounding and defensive demon. Johnson is the team’s best interior defender, a particularly good match for Bargnani when factoring in the latter’s defensive and rebounding shortcomings. So no matter how well Davis has played — and, frankly, the sample size is too small to come to a meaningful conclusion — he will always be less of a priority for Casey than the other three players.

This is a problem with Bryan Colangelo’s “stacking principle” — the practice of gathering talented players who play the same position. Certainly, you want to collect the most talented players possible. But if one of those players ends up losing playing time in a minutes crunch, he becomes less valuable as an asset.


When you get in the game, you’ve got to make your minutes count and not count your minutes
.
The fact that the league is generally heading in a smaller direction makes it tougher for the Raptors to have the glut up front. The Raptors’ opponent on Monday, the Utah Jazz, are in a similar position: They have established big men Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap to go along with prospects Derrick Favors and Enes Kanter.

Kanter, the third-overall pick in the 2011 draft, is in the same position in Utah as Davis is in Toronto: Through seven games, he is playing fewer than 15 minutes per night.

“I’ve just got to play better when I’m out there,” said Davis, who is averaging 4.8 points and 4.0 rebounds per game in his limited minutes.

“When you get in the game,” Casey said, “you’ve got to make your minutes count and not count your minutes.”

Of course, with injuries to Landry Fields and Alan Anderson, the Raptors, with six losses in their first seven games, would give Davis a long leash if he were a small forward. But in an area where they have depth, Davis does not get the benefit of the doubt.

It is just another factor in the Raptors’ slow start: Even the injuries are happening to the wrong guys.
Toronto Raptors waiting for Ed Davis to define himself | NBA | Sports | National Post

Yeah, he should be dealt or used. I think they decided to draft Acy to compensate for ED if he were to be dealt. However, ED could have a role if Bargs were to be packaged, with Ross for instance, for that elusive SF.

LX 11-12-2012 12:24 PM

The dude isn't going to define himself in 5 minutes. He did define himself against Minnesota, and he was a big part of a 15 point quarter for Indiana.

Reading between the lines, the choice is being made to keep Bargnani on the floor for around 40 minutes per game, and needing more size than what Ed can deliver in order to compensate for Andrea's deficiencies and unwillingness to use his own size against 5’s. Ed isn't the only one to pay a price, as Valanciunas can't really get afforded the chance to develop within games while needing to worry about covering for Andrea at the same time. There is a reason Aaron Gray was a no-brainier and will continue to get minutes. The question is - is that really the direction we want to go? When the league is getting smaller and playing small ball more often, why are we stuck on playing one big that has to be paired with another big at almost all costs? Any way you look at it, unless we move Andrea to a sixth man role, where he could prove to e far more consistent than he is now, we are limiting this team, and making the coach look like an ass.

carp 11-12-2012 12:29 PM

It's unfortunate but it's clear that too much developing depth is not a good thing. Davis is the odd man out. He should have been packaged long ago in order to improve the 3 spot and now we're knee deep in mediocre small forwards and no cap space to bring a guy in. Even Pietrus, who is a FA, would come in and be our best three and we can't offer him more than the minimum. Colangelo is sitting on his hand way too long. Kleiza and Ed for W. Chandler would be a great deal. If you can't fill the three, you may as well rebuild by dealing AB, DD and KL.

Thug 11-12-2012 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LX (Post 701444)
The dude isn't going to define himself in 5 minutes. He did define himself against Minnesota, and he was a big part of a 15 point quarter for Indiana.

Reading between the lines, the choice is being made to keep Bargnani on the floor for around 40 minutes per game, and needing more size than what Ed can deliver in order to compensate for Andrea's deficiencies and unwillingness to use his own size against 5ís. Ed isn't the only one to pay a price, as Valanciunas can't really get afforded the chance to develop within games while needing to worry about covering for Andrea at the same time. There is a reason Aaron Gray was a no-brainier and will continue to get minutes. The question is - is that really the direction we want to go? When the league is getting smaller and playing small ball more often, why are we stuck on playing one big that has to be paired with another big at almost all costs? Any way you look at it, unless we move Andrea to a sixth man role, where he could prove to e far more consistent than he is now, we are limiting this team, and making the coach look like an ass.

I'm starting to think the same way. Bargnani needs to be moved either to a different team, or to a 6th man role for us. I'm sure he would take it in stride.

jeffb 11-12-2012 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thug (Post 701448)
I'm starting to think the same way. Bargnani needs to be moved either to a different team, or to a 6th man role for us. I'm sure he would take it in stride.

He'll get moved way before he goes to the bench.

LOG 11-12-2012 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 701446)
It's unfortunate but it's clear that too much developing depth is not a good thing. Davis is the odd man out. He should have been packaged long ago in order to improve the 3 spot and now we're knee deep in mediocre small forwards and no cap space to bring a guy in. Even Pietrus, who is a FA, would come in and be our best three and we can't offer him more than the minimum. Colangelo is sitting on his hand way too long. Kleiza and Ed for W. Chandler would be a great deal. If you can't fill the three, you may as well rebuild by dealing AB, DD and KL.

:confused2:

carp 11-12-2012 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOG (Post 701451)
:confused2:

If you start to rebuild, do you risk losing KL to FA for nothing if he doesn't re-sign before? Just a thought.

jeffb 11-12-2012 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carp (Post 701454)
If you start to rebuild, do you risk losing KL to FA for nothing if he doesn't re-sign before? Just a thought.

Rebuild?? :confused2:


We just started a rebuild 2yrs ago. :haha:

Yeah, let's rebuild again in the middle of this rebuild. Seriously, i think some here have slipped and landed on their heads.

thought 11-12-2012 01:17 PM

given the glut of mediocre big men on this team i think it was obvious that at some point one of them would emerge as the odd man out. whether or not it's justified that ed is the one seeing the reduction in minutes is another story.

in a perfect world this glut would result in a level of internal competition that would raise the play of these guys to a point where you aren't missing a beat having any one of them in. it hasn't really worked out like that, and that's a sad thing.

carp 11-12-2012 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffb (Post 701456)
Rebuild?? :confused2:


We just started a rebuild 2yrs ago. :haha:

Yeah, let's rebuild again in the middle of this rebuild. Seriously, i think some here have slipped and landed on their heads.

dumb post. Read it with context. My basic premise was that if you can't improve the SF spot.

Come on Son.

'trane 11-12-2012 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thought (Post 701460)

in a perfect world this glut would result in a level of internal competition that would raise the play of these guys to a point where you aren't missing a beat having any one of them in. it hasn't really worked out like that, and that's a sad thing.

i think this an nba-wide problem. everyone in this league is too buddy-buddy, and you just don't see enough guys playing with fire in their belly. the 'culture' of the raps team is to be a prime example of this. a weak team in a league gone soft.

Blaze 11-12-2012 01:44 PM

Never will under Casey. His rotations are complete dirt, offence sucks, never goes with the hot hand if it's not Bargs or Demar...and don't tell me I'm panicking, I've been saying this since last year.

halphbreedballer 11-12-2012 01:50 PM

Does anyone here think Amir has the quicks on defense to at least be a viable option at SF?

I think so at least in limited minutes...

jeffb 11-12-2012 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halphbreedballer (Post 701486)
Does anyone here think Amir has the quicks on defense to at least be a viable option at SF?

I think so at least in limited minutes...

NO

Bargn88 11-12-2012 01:57 PM

Davis doesn't have much of an offensive game, and he commits stupid fouls. Even when Bargnani was out last year for an extended period of time, Davis didn't exactly stand out. He has improved somewhat in his jump shooting and FT's, but overall he's quite stagnant on offence. He can rebound the ball quite well..

LET'S GO RAPTORS!!!!! 11-12-2012 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halphbreedballer (Post 701486)
Does anyone here think Amir has the quicks on defense to at least be a viable option at SF?

I think so at least in limited minutes...

NO!

The dude's a big and he plays like a big. His "quicks" help him against other bigs.

At least what you said wasn't as bad as when people were calling ED a SF (or so small that he should be a SF) on here.

FLO 11-12-2012 02:03 PM

Thank Bargnani and his dad Colangelo for that. Ed might as well get traded because he'll never get a fair shot with the golden boy in tonw.

Bargn88 11-12-2012 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLO (Post 701500)
Thank Bargnani and his dad Colangelo for that. Ed might as well get traded because he'll never get a fair shot with the golden boy in tonw.

Ed Davis - Toronto Raptors - Game Log - NBA - Yahoo! Sports


That's his game log last year, Bargnani was out for 2/3 of the season. The only time he ever reached 20+ points was when he played 43 minutes in the final game of the season.

Same game that Alabi looked like Dwight Howard.

Davis can rebound, but you need scoring, and he doesn't exactly provide that.


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